Any Suggestions On How To Find A Mentor?

[Bob Ipock]

I appreciate your honesty and definitely can appreciate it. I honestly do wish you the best of luck, especially since you are definitely not my "competition" being 3,000 mi away! (joke)

I guess the one thing that jumped out at me in your post is (my bold) Don't take this personally, as you are definitely NOT the first/only person I've heard/read this from (both in person and on this forum).

But a statement like this, personally to me as a full time, career appraiser ... is annoying to hear. This isn't just a "part time" gig and definitely isn't for everyone. I've said it before and will say it again. You have to WANT to become an appraiser. Believe me, I hear it from friends of mine that I've known for years. Many people have NO IDEA what it takes, let alone what we do. And that's fine! I sort of prefer it that way. I still have friends I've known for over 10 years that think I'm a home inspector (I am not, btw). I tell/correct them all the time that I am not, but to them (general public) ???

Something I would tell any person who thinks they would like to be an appraiser: It's NOT easy, it takes a lot of dedication and should not be looked at as simply a "part time gig" (remember, your name/license is on the line every time you sign a report)

When I say you....I don't mean YOU personally.

It is nearly impossible to come into the business part time. The appraisal business is full time. We get an order in on Monday and they want it back Thursday. As a supervisor, I can't work my schedule around a trainee. I can't wait until it is convenient for you. I have to work when there is work and take time off when i don't have work. You can works nights and week-ends.....sorry I am putting in 10 hours a day 5 days week I don't have any extra hours to train you. The appraisal business takes repetative training. If you are not learning the software, data searches etc. on a regular basis it will take MUCH longer to learn what you need to know. You are a liability, you slow me down, you cost me money. All you want is to "get those hours" and then head out to open your own shop. Not you? Well you would be the exception. Anyone that entered this business in the last 20 years was trained by someone. Very few became certified and are still with the person that trained them. This is not a part-time business unless you have built a business and have scaled back to part time. Most importantly, anyone who takes ll the pre-license classes BEFORE lining up a supervisor is a fool. The hardest thing you will ever do is find a supervisor. You are not the first person that is so smart, so cool, so savvy, so educated, so perfect that has walked through the door. We have seen you before. Now, go pound the pavement and find a supervisor before you take the first class.

 

[WillWorkForTraining]

When I say you....I don't mean YOU personally.

It is nearly impossible to come into the business part time. The appraisal business is full time. We get an order in on Monday and they want it back Thursday. As a supervisor, I can't work my schedule around a trainee. I can't wait until it is convenient for you. I have to work when there is work and take time off when i don't have work. You can works nights and week-ends.....sorry I am putting in 10 hours a day 5 days week I don't have any extra hours to train you. The appraisal business takes repetative training. If you are not learning the software, data searches etc. on a regular basis it will take MUCH longer to learn what you need to know. You are a liability, you slow me down, you cost me money. All you want is to "get those hours" and then head out to open your own shop. Not you? Well you would be the exception. Anyone that entered this business in the last 20 years was trained by someone. Very few became certified and are still with the person that trained them. This is not a part-time business unless you have built a business and have scaled back to part time. Most importantly, anyone who takes ll the pre-license classes BEFORE lining up a supervisor is a fool. The hardest thing you will ever do is find a supervisor. You are not the first person that is so smart, so cool, so savvy, so educated, so perfect that has walked through the door. We have seen you before. Now, go pound the pavement and find a supervisor before you take the first class.

Yes and at least how I see it, most trainees get the frustration that comes with not getting a return on your investment (at least I do). Legitamitely though, a trainee may be a liability at hour 0, but at hour 100 has some value (or should). The win for you in my opinion, is that somewhere around hour 500 you should have a fairly competent trainee; maybe not 100% but 500 hours doing anything should make you at least somewhat valuable. In CA that gives you another 500 of relatively cheap labor that’s continuing to get better. That’s value.

To me, if you don’t see that value at the pace that you need it, fire them! It’s an at will state (at least in CA). Why not before hiring a trainee, set the expectation and growth plan for them, one that gives you value as well. If they don’t hit it you are probably doing them a favor for letting them go and find something else to do. Make them provide a portfolio before you hire them (I know I am providing one) so you can see where they are at and assess. Be critical of their work and see how they respond/defend their value. Then, how about somewhere around hour 800, they have to bring on a trainee that they can train to get through the basics, so you don’t have to? The hours won’t count for the new trainee until you are supervising them of course, but it gets you somebody at a good starting place.

How about making them sign a non-compete so when they get done they don’t work in your area? Might not be 100% in court of course but poaching clients is still poaching clients.

I guess at the end of the day the frustration from the trainee perspective is that we didn’t set up this system, we are just trying to work inside it. It’s not entirely fair to restrict access to a profession because you found somebody to train you but now don’t want to pass it on.

There must be a way to get creative so that we can create value on both sides....

 

[bnmappraisal]

I guess at the end of the day the frustration from the trainee perspective is that we didn’t set up this system, we are just trying to work inside it. It’s not entirely fair to restrict access to a profession because you found somebody to train you but now don’t want to pass it on.

It's definitely not as easy/simplified as that. Although I do think (my personal opinion) many appraisers were trained by family members, there are many (like myself) who were not. It definitely took a while to find a mentor/supervisor.

Then, how about somewhere around hour 800, they have to bring on a trainee that they can train to get through the basics, so you don’t have to? The hours won’t count for the new trainee until you are supervising them of course, but it gets you somebody at a good starting place.

generally speaking (I don't remotely pretend to know the laws in all states but...) this is absolutely not allowed

Why not before hiring a trainee, set the expectation and growth plan for them, one that gives you value as well.

I would like to think most supervisors/mentors would do this but ...

Legitamitely though, a trainee may be a liability at hour 0, but at hour 100 has some value (or should).

Hour 100??? It does come back to (and not a personal dig at you by any means, but potential trainees - I was of a similar mentality at one point) - you don't know what you don't know, you have no idea what you're really getting into. There is a reason the hours are the way they are. Even at hour (whatever 12 years of hours are) XXXXX I'm still learning and running into things that push the boundaries of my knowledge/expertise. I'd bet most on here, even with more experience than myself, can claim the same. So to say after hour 100 has some value.

I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to shed some realistic light on your situation. Believe me, I remember QUITE WELL being in the same place. Again, it's "only" been 12 "short" years since I was in your shoes - trying to find/finding a supervisor.

 

[WillWorkForTraining]

It's definitely not as easy/simplified as that. Although I do think (my personal opinion) many appraisers were trained by family members, there are many (like myself) who were not. It definitely took a while to find a mentor/supervisor.

generally speaking (I don't remotely pretend to know the laws in all states but...) this is absolutely not allowed

I would like to think most supervisors/mentors would do this but ...

Hour 100??? It does come back to (and not a personal dig at you by any means, but potential trainees - I was of a similar mentality at one point) - you don't know what you don't know, you have no idea what you're really getting into. There is a reason the hours are the way they are. Even at hour (whatever 12 years of hours are) XXXXX I'm still learning and running into things that push the boundaries of my knowledge/expertise. I'd bet most on here, even with more experience than myself, can claim the same. So to say after hour 100 has some value.

I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to shed some realistic light on your situation. Believe me, I remember QUITE WELL being in the same place. Again, it's "only" been 12 "short" years since I was in your shoes - trying to find/finding a supervisor.

Well my point is that training and learning is a curve not an absolute. If what you are saying is that if you put a trainee with 100 hours right next to an equally talented trainee with zero hours and right next to an equally talented trainee with 500 hours and you would expect the same quality of work with no difference in speed, efficiency or accuracy between the three, while I fully respect your opinion I find it incredibly difficult to believe. My point is that trainee value should increase over the period (otherwise the hours requirement aren’t accurate). As a trainer you should expect that and push for that so that you can (among other things) get some value for your time.

My point about the assistant trainee thing, is to appoint them sort of as an admin to learn the skill set from the trainee toward the end. Not necessarily to create reports or anything like that. It’s a practice position that the trainee can begin grooming so that the next trainee isn’t completely green.

At any rate my surprise regarding this community is two fold really. Glad to see so many opinions (I’m never offended), and you are the experts in the field so I’m soaking up everything I can and I greatly appreciate it. On the flip side, I think the perspective of seeing trainees as liabilities and a general perspective as a waste of your time, well I just think that’s quite short sighted and the general unwillingness to give back to a profession that you have benefited from is surprising. Maybe my top of mind examples don’t work in the real world, but they were just examples.

The idea that there must be some way to turn the fact that you get cheap labor into an advantage for you and hours for us should be important to the profession.

 

[bnmappraisal]

Well my point is that training and learning is a curve not an absolute

100% agree, well said

If what you are saying is that if you put a trainee with 100 hours right next to an equally talented trainee with zero hours and right next to an equally talented trainee with 500 hours and you would expect the same quality of work with no difference in speed, efficiency or accuracy between the three, while I fully respect your opinion I find it incredibly difficult to believe.

Not exactly what I am saying, but I see your point. Yes, generally, one would think with the more training/hours, the trainee would be/should be more experienced and have better knowledge/expertise with each trained hour. But I'm sure you know, not everyone learns/trains at the same pace. And in this profession, with so many different types of properties out there (just search/read through any random threads on this forum!) even seasoned veteran appraisers (20+ years) still come on asking questions. That's what my point was

 

[WillWorkForTraining]

Thanks bnm. I actually love to hear that about the profession! The fact that you can be in a profession 20 years and still come across challenging assignments is actually incredible. I’m excited about that aspect of the field and much looking forward to getting started on the education piece.

 

[bnmappraisal]

At any rate my surprise regarding this community is two fold really. Glad to see so many opinions (I’m never offended), and you are the experts in the field so I’m soaking up everything I can and I greatly appreciate it.

Glad to hear you have a "thick skin" as that is something you may need in this field, but definitely on this forum. You have my respect for that.
Homeowners, borrowers, lenders, clients, etc will say all kinds of things about you and your report/opinion

On the flip side, I think the perspective of seeing trainees as liabilities and a general perspective as a waste of your time, well I just think that’s quite short sighted and the general unwillingness to give back to a profession that you have benefited from is surprising.

Personally, I don't see a trainee as a liability nor waste of time. I was just contacted by a guy within the past 3 weeks inquiring about becoming a trainee. Honestly, one of the reasons (top 3!) I told him no, was because I would not be able to pay him a "living wage" to be a trainee. I've had 2 other inquiries over the past 2-3 years and my reasoning was the same. There is a lot of responsibility taking on a trainee (personally I wouldn't consider it a "liability").

I also don't think it's an "unwillingness to give back..." to a profession we've benefited from is the case.

 

[bnmappraisal]

Thanks bnm. I actually love to hear that about the profession! The fact that you can be in a profession 20 years and still come across challenging assignments is actually incredible. I’m excited about that aspect of the field and much looking forward to getting started on the education piece.

It's definitely what keeps the "job" interesting

 

[WillWorkForTraining]

Personally, I don't see a trainee as a liability nor waste of time. I was just contacted by a guy within the past 3 weeks inquiring about becoming a trainee. Honestly, one of the reasons (top 3!) I told him no, was because I would not be able to pay him a "living wage" to be a trainee. I've had 2 other inquiries over the past 2-3 years and my reasoning was the same. There is a lot of responsibility taking on a trainee (personally I wouldn't consider it a "liability").

I also don't think it's an "unwillingness to give back..." to a profession we've benefited from is the case.

Completely understand the financial aspect, would never expect anybody to do something they can’t afford for the profession. And this is not me asking for myself but just more in general, what about if a candidate was willing to work for free, sort of as remote work on the side of their current profession or job (or if they don’t have a m-f job they could come in on a day off). Again, I’m making the assumption that remote work hours would count toward training hours here, but just curious. For appraisers like yourself, where it’s more of a financial concern, there might be a way around paying a living wage if the trainee didn’t have to rely on the income....

 

[bnmappraisal]

Thanks bnm. I actually love to hear that about the profession! The fact that you can be in a profession 20 years and still come across challenging assignments is actually incredible. I’m excited about that aspect of the field and much looking forward to getting started on the education piece.

Have you reached out to a local appraiser (or 10?) to see if you could follow them for a day?
See what a "typical" inspection entails?
Although I do not have a trainee now, nor the means to bring one on (at this time), I have had a few people come with me on inspections and/or see what it entails to write/research a report.

Personally I did not charge them anything. Others may want compensated. I don't know.
But it might give you a better first hand experience to see if it's "really for you" just a thought