factsandtruth
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Fresh meat to keep appraiser fees in the basement. ..
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- Thread starter Stephen J. Vertin MAI
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Meandering
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NonS
makes a good point. The only financial benefit to the mentor was an additional laborer. But that has been outsourced to India and others, where the appraiser does not have to disclose or pay taxes and insurance on that person, who is also not taking up space, or needing software licenses and MLS memberships. There is no fighting with clients about letting trainees sign reports, when you can ship the typing to India and they don't need to sign reports.
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makes a good point. The only financial benefit to the mentor was an additional laborer. But that has been outsourced to India and others, where the appraiser does not have to disclose or pay taxes and insurance on that person, who is also not taking up space, or needing software licenses and MLS memberships. There is no fighting with clients about letting trainees sign reports, when you can ship the typing to India and they don't need to sign reports.
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Eli
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These big firms and AMC's are missing that cheap labor trainees provided. They are trying every way they can to encourage appraisers to join them as staff. I would rather work for the assessor or a credit union or a bank as an employee. No way I could work as staff for an AMC. I thought at one time right after the crash that it might be a good idea when I was solicited by one. I'm glad I didn't bite that bait.
Some sorry mentors are just as bad as AMC's and they can't figure out where all their trainees went either. I can tell them market structure changed. Thank the oligopsony for getting rid of your trainees, along with an oversupply of appraisers. A double whammy so to speak.
Some sorry mentors are just as bad as AMC's and they can't figure out where all their trainees went either. I can tell them market structure changed. Thank the oligopsony for getting rid of your trainees, along with an oversupply of appraisers. A double whammy so to speak.
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I agree. The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging. The ink is hardly dry on the new requirements, if they're so bad that they need tweaking 8 months in scrap them and start over.
But nothing is going to be solved until the ASC if forced to step back.
Eli
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The increased workload and giving a 30% or more cut of the fee the borrower is paying to a third party acting as a secretary (AMC) is a sure fire way to kill a profession. C&R is the answer to fight the monopolistic competition made by some economist in Washington. I hope it works. It has a heartbeat right now. That's good. LOL
Meandering
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Michigan CG
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Very interesting topic that has covered many aspects. Hasn't the fear of an aging appraiser population been a discussion matter for 20+ years? Hasn't appraising been a second career for many people in this business for many years?
Has it not been common for many residential appraisers to join the profession because their father or uncle was an appraiser?
Haven't the big commercial firms always hired college grads?
Has it not been common for many years for small commercial firms to take an ad out in the help wanted pages for a trainee when they needed to increase in size?
Has anything REALLY changed that much over the years?
Here is my take as an appraiser who does residential, commercial and farm work. I don't want to conquer the world or be a big fish in a big pond. I would rather be a medium sized fish in a small pond. For residential work I would never train anyone unless it was one of my kids. The fees are depressed and there is no/little loyalty in residential work. I have a couple clients that will use me specifically for the harder residential stuff but it is just about enough to make my car payment every month and not much more. In the residential world the AMC model has changed everything and the AMCs are good at depressing fees but that simply cannot last forever. Sooner or later supply and demand has to take over again although it hasn't yet.
For commercial work I like to stay in my county and I lose a lot of assignments based on fee. Other assignments I lose out because I do not have an MAI. From 2008-2011 I had a lot of calls asking me to "train" residential appraisers so that they could "get their hours". I turned them all down as they were just looking to become competition in my small area which did not interest me.
For agricultural work it seems that most residential appraisers ignore licensing laws and they have taken the fees down pretty low. I would say that most ag appraisals are written by people who haven't a clue.
I see fee pressure in the commercial world but that will be solved by an improving economy. For the residential world there is an over-supply of appraisers in many areas and there is simply no need for new blood. In some areas there is a shortage of appraisers yet the AMCs have convinced many that fees cannot go up. Residential clients still expect three to seven day turn times. As there becomes a REAL shortage the AMCs will first extend turn time requirements and I think that is most likely happening now. They will push for anything that prevents rising fees although that will come as there will be fewer appraisers over time.
It seems that $400 is the ceiling that the AMCs are fighting at least in my area. Some places in the country $325 seems to be the ceiling. If an appraiser can get $400 per report and do one a day then they can make a pretty good living. If one were to hire a part time assistant they could most likely do eight reports a week working five days a week which is $100,000/year after expenses typical of working for an employer providing benefits.
Has it not been common for many residential appraisers to join the profession because their father or uncle was an appraiser?
Haven't the big commercial firms always hired college grads?
Has it not been common for many years for small commercial firms to take an ad out in the help wanted pages for a trainee when they needed to increase in size?
Has anything REALLY changed that much over the years?
Here is my take as an appraiser who does residential, commercial and farm work. I don't want to conquer the world or be a big fish in a big pond. I would rather be a medium sized fish in a small pond. For residential work I would never train anyone unless it was one of my kids. The fees are depressed and there is no/little loyalty in residential work. I have a couple clients that will use me specifically for the harder residential stuff but it is just about enough to make my car payment every month and not much more. In the residential world the AMC model has changed everything and the AMCs are good at depressing fees but that simply cannot last forever. Sooner or later supply and demand has to take over again although it hasn't yet.
For commercial work I like to stay in my county and I lose a lot of assignments based on fee. Other assignments I lose out because I do not have an MAI. From 2008-2011 I had a lot of calls asking me to "train" residential appraisers so that they could "get their hours". I turned them all down as they were just looking to become competition in my small area which did not interest me.
For agricultural work it seems that most residential appraisers ignore licensing laws and they have taken the fees down pretty low. I would say that most ag appraisals are written by people who haven't a clue.
I see fee pressure in the commercial world but that will be solved by an improving economy. For the residential world there is an over-supply of appraisers in many areas and there is simply no need for new blood. In some areas there is a shortage of appraisers yet the AMCs have convinced many that fees cannot go up. Residential clients still expect three to seven day turn times. As there becomes a REAL shortage the AMCs will first extend turn time requirements and I think that is most likely happening now. They will push for anything that prevents rising fees although that will come as there will be fewer appraisers over time.
It seems that $400 is the ceiling that the AMCs are fighting at least in my area. Some places in the country $325 seems to be the ceiling. If an appraiser can get $400 per report and do one a day then they can make a pretty good living. If one were to hire a part time assistant they could most likely do eight reports a week working five days a week which is $100,000/year after expenses typical of working for an employer providing benefits.
Eli
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I agree Michigan, but that one a day in some markets (take rural for example or a heterogeneous market) is just not possible. One a day is just not possible in many markets depending on the complexity of the assignments and whether the market is heterogeneous in nature or homogeneous in nature in general. AMC's are probably having a hard time in those markets where 1.5 to 2 (+) days is typical on many assignments and that is only going to get worse quick here pretty soon.
Now somebody can hire a full time clerical person in those tough markets, but then the fees are not high enough to pay the help even if the help shortens the turn time to 1 a day. AMC's are probably struggling in those tough markets already and it will get worse in my opinion.
Now somebody can hire a full time clerical person in those tough markets, but then the fees are not high enough to pay the help even if the help shortens the turn time to 1 a day. AMC's are probably struggling in those tough markets already and it will get worse in my opinion.
JTip
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I work with three appraisers (CR/CG) that will not do fee work (outside of FT department work). I explain it's the 'burger flipping' end of the profession and the money is pretty nice. I turn away good paying work (not fee blast but full pay exclusive assignments) because there isn't enough hours in the day and there is NOBODY that wants the surplus work. They all politely grin and decline.....
Terrel L. Shields
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,
Agree. It is the ASC that have made unreasonable demands upon state boards. They even wanted Arkansas to change the statues of limitations to five years because of the five year record keeping requirement. (Our state cannot investigate an appraisal that is over the SoL) and it was the ASC who wanted the state to revoke the licenses of appraisers who had used assessor appraisal experience in their experience log. That would have been over 100 appraisers and would have put the state in turmoil.
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