Appraiser Association

[Neil (Texas)]

Let me say up front that I am an active and designated member of the National Association of Independent Fee Appraisers (www.NAIFA.com or www.DallasNAIFA.com); however, what I am about to say is my personal biased viewpoint (and in no way represents NAIFA).

As a member, I not only receive two appraisal courses (days) per year at a cost of $20 per course but have the opportunity to get acquainted with some of the finest minds and instructors in the country. If I get stumped with an appraisal situation, I know that but a phone call away I will find an answer or assistance. Also, our chapter meets monthly and every other month we have a 2 hour CE seminar at a cost of $20 a member ($25 for non-members) and that includes lunch. This year’s CE included a seminar by John Hunt (GIS guru) and one on “Applications and Methodologies in Structural Foundation Repairs, with FHA, VA, HUD and 203K Guidelines” by Shawn Lawson (CEO, Perma-Pier). May not seem like much but that amounts to 24 hours of CE per licensing period. By the way, meetings are held at the Top-O-The-Cliff Club in the BOA building and lunch includes a choice of 2 soups, salad bar, several entrees, dessert, and coffee or tea.

My dues also include membership in the Dallas Chapter, which in turn pays for membership (opted by the membership) in Foundation Appraisers Coalition of Texas (FACT). FACT, a political action organization (lobby), is composed of members, mostly from various appraisal associations, who wish to present a unified political front on appraisal issues coming before the Texas legislature. There are approximately 8,000 licensed appraisers in Texas, of whom less than 1000 are members in FACT.

Texas has been a “non-disclosure” state, but that is about to change. At this moment the Texas legislature is considering a bill (school finance) which includes a stipulation requiring buyers to file a certification reporting purchase price and terms with the county appraisal district. The kicker in this legislation is that the buyer’s certification shall not be open to the public (including independent appraisers… you and me). FACT is in a David and Goliath battle in an attempt to make the purchase records open to appraisers and, I am sad to report, we (appraisers) are running out of stones.

As I understand it, there are an estimated 80,000 licensed appraisers in the US. Of that number I would suspect that no more than 25% are members of an appraisal association. I believe it is naive to think that such a minority would have the resources to successfully represent the interests of all appraisers. (“Let George do it,” is alive and well.)

Each of us is given the opportunity to participate in the political process. Personally, I chose to no longer watch and wish from the sidelines but to participate. Guess you could say I’m a sucker for lost causes.

 

[TC]

Originally posted by George Hatch@Mar 17 2005, 12:41 PM
AppraisersForum.com is probably the most effective appraisal association I can think of. It might even be the most cohesive appraiser group out there, too.

Ah, go pound salt, Hatch! B)

 

[Carnivore]

Originally posted by George Hatch@Mar 17 2005, 01:41 PM
AppraisersForum.com is probably the most effective appraisal association I can think of. It might even be the most cohesive appraiser group out there, too.

George

That makes two of us for sure. Wonder how many others have similar thoughts.

It is a great point. When something is said at this forum a whole lot of people read it. The word gets out. I dare say that most of the NEW fannie mae form changes, and I emphasis changes, came right from this forum. Either that or it was amazing coincidence.

Alamode has a news letter about residential appraising and other topics in the real estate industry that touches more residential appraisers that AI or NAIFA put together. Can you imagine that! They literally have more influence with appraisers than appraiser organizations.

Now I wont take anything away from AI. They have done a great job getting on t he inside with power users and even congressional members. I applaud them for that.

Truth of the matter is that if residential appraisers get organized enough to have one mind then and only then will real appraiser problems be addressed. they can do this real easy by joining Waynes world for free and getting on the inside with AI or NAIFA. AI is a real problem, because they dont allow admittance to the real influence without jumping through a lot of major hoops. NAIFA is much better suited I think for residential guys and a whole lot easier for admittance.

ftr, I took USPAP with NAIFA and was very pleased. Well worth the bucks.
My instructors were two italian jobs out of Chicago. Mark and Lisa. something or other. Going to try and meet up with them again later this year.

 

[Terry Fisher]

I also had no sucess in finding a copy of the bill (H.R. 1295). This site states The Library of Congress has not yet received copy from the Goverment Printing Office. Seach here...Search records of the 109th Congress

As of this morning, CA has 11,498 licensed appraisers, not including the 6,082 licensed appraiser trainees. I am not going to research the geographic breakdown of the population, but for sake of argument say 1/3 is in southern CA, and the breakdown of appraisers is similar. Out of 3,800 or so appraisers, NAIFA cannot find the membership support for a local chapter. I think this speaks volumes about the perception of what an NAIFA membership will do for the average appraiser, if nothing else. This opinion is formed solely based on the above facts. If I were less tenacious I might conclude that NAIFA has little to offer me, if they cannot support a chapter in a population this large. However, I do feel the NAIFA is an organization I need to explore more fully, and I intend to contact local members for their input. I feel an organization is as strong or as weak as their membership, and that if enough people want something to happen, it eventually will. Please do not construe this as a condemnation of any group or individual, I simply mean that if you want to see change, effect change. I plan to pursue the practice of appraisal with all the professionalism I can muster, and hope a professional organization will be an ongoing part of my career path. But that remains to be seen.

 

[Don Clark]

B) I believe any organization is only as good as it's members, and it's governing body. The designated members I have met from various organizations have generally been of high caliber, with a very few notable exceptions. But, the governing bodies of many of these organizations tend to have their heads in the clouds, and more interested in playing musical chairs than in getting any real work done. I have taken courses from the AI as well as NAIFA and NAMA(Lincoln Graduate Center). I have a great deal of respect for all of them. But, all of the organizations, not just the ones I named, are corely lacking in getting a lot done. However, I realize that most if not all of them are also working appraisers and have a living to make. Unitl we can have people dedicated full time to being our advocate at the state and federal level, we will get little accomplished.

 

[Karl]

Wonder how many RE Agent Forums & Mortgage Forums that have threads start out Appraisers what good are they?? The associations are only as good as its membership.

 

[Paul Ness MAI]

The end result of these threads relating to professional associations has become predictable. I've been a member of this forum for three years and have seen such threads pop up about every 3-4 months. Legitimate sincere questions about the relevance of associations or "which is better?" and they always end up with slams against the AI as well as personal slams. I don't really care about the slams of AI, but was in the past the target of many slams myself until the moderator cracked down on it. Now some of you are slaming someone who isn't even here to defend himself.

Just to set the record straight on two specific items that were mentioned. (1) AI is affiliated with seven colleges across the nation with Master's programs that dovetail with the MAI designation, and (2) AI has done a lot in Washington, and most recently in the area of lender pressure and appraiser independence. Go to the AI web site and search for the articles on this subject. They even have an "Appraiser Independence Action Center" with links to various regulatory bodies to facilitate complaints.

Don't misunderstand me. By listing the above items, I'm not implying that AI is the greatest association going. I have some problems with them, too. I'm just elaborating on two specific complaints about AI that were mentioned in this thread.

Further, the analogy to the President of the US was poor, in an attempt to say that all AI members should take responsibility for AI's actions. That's like saying you and I are responsible for the Senate approving drilling in ANWR and should be able to defend it. :blink:

 

[Lee Lansford]

AND the advantages of NOT being a member of a professional association are WHAT exactly?

Allow me to state this: I much enjoy this forum and I find many passionate and professional appraisers who frequent this site. I find many appraisers who are interested in the betterment of the profession. This is good!

I have been appraising since 1983 and I find personal and professional benefit through my association with the National Association of Indpendent Fee Appraisers (NAIFA). Many opportunities have opened up to me via my association with other professionals (i.e., professionals prefer to associate with other professionals; aka: "Birds of a feather flock together."). Our local chapter (Chicago Metropolitan Chapter) is active and holds occasional monthly membership luncheon meetings. Our meeting this month featured a speaker from the office of the Chicago Zoning department and there were approximately 90 appraisers in attendance.

Here in Illinois, around 1993 the AI got the ball rolling for the formation of the Illinois Coalition of Appraisal Professionals (ICAP). Sponsoring organizations are the American Society of Appraisers (ASA), American Society of Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers (ASFMRA), the Appraisal Institute (AI), NAIFA, and the National Association of Master Appraisers (NAMA).

ICAP is a lobbying organization that works for the betterment of the profession and is quite active here in Illinois. Though ICAP has many appraisers as members who are not affiliated with a professional organization, the backbone of ICAP comes from the support of the professional organizations noted above.

There may well be exceptions, and I expect that there are, but when I look around at the appraisers in Illinois who are active in working toward the betterment of the lot of the common appraiser, I see a whole lot of appraisers who are affiliated with a professional organization. This is my own observation, but it would appear to be kind of difficult to be a one man (or, "woman") army.

Back to my original question: What are the advantages to NOT being affiliated with a professional organization?


Lee Lansford, IFA
2004-2005 Illinois State Director, NAIFA
2005 Deputy Regional Governor, NAIFA
Past-Director, ICAP

 

[Carnivore]

Paul,

Myself and others know that your sincere and certainly dont think individual members have much to do with or say in the overall activities of organizations like AI or NAIFA. We realize your one person.

You have to admit that it does seem rather odd that the discussion of appraisal organizatons seems to always start out on the negative aspects as opposed to the positive. The question these organization should find the answer too is why its that way. One would expect a certain amount of competition and pettiness between organizations. You know what I mean, the "I am bigger and badder than you' syndrome. Thats not really the case. I think its quite telling that non-members have an interest but it always seems to waine as we learn more about each one. Its not my problem its your organizations problem.

Frankly, you guys dont toot your horn at me(me as in non-members) as much as I would expect. One only has to look at this forum to see an absence of AI members. Oh a few of you come here and are willing to share your wealth of knowledge. Trust me when I say many here appreciate it, including myself. If I were to guess I dare say that less then 10% of your membership would even acknowledge the existence of this forum. I would also bet that way more than 10% know about it.

Would you agree that AI has a PR problem with 80% of the appraisers in the US.?
Think about that one.

If you take this as just another slam on AI then there is nothing more that I can say.

-------------------

Wait a minute. Thank you for informing me of the AI association to some colleges.

Now where can I find that info?

 

[Rudy Canoza]

organizations like AI or NAIFA

The problem with the existing organizations is they have lost sight of who they represent. Instead, the organizations are "cost centers" that run on profit or loss. They are lobbied by lenders, mortgage brokers, AMC's, AVM's, etc. The real profit is in taking money from the "enemy." The appraisers are an aside.

What the world of appraising needs is a not-for-profit organization with chapters in each state. The chapter leaders must be working appraisers, not pencil-neck bureaucrats who have never held a real job in the real world in their entire life.

Each chapter leader must be trained in (1) training appraisers how to lobby their local, state, and national representatives on issues important to the appraisal industry; (2) how to organize and conduct chapter meetings in order to disseminate information; (3) how to network with the state appraisal board in order to develop lesson plans for CE; and other activities necessary for the chapter members.

On a national level annual meetings and symposium should be organized. Guest speakers from government agencies, Fannie Mae, and other national organizations should be included. Information regarding the risk and failure of the real estate market due to "lender select" programs and AVM's are high on my list. CE credits should be included.

In my humble opinion, strong emphasis must be placed on lobbying government officials. Strong emphasis must be placed on talking points, sample letters, and research, as well as information including names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, necessary to conduct a national barrage of appraiser lobbying.

In addition, what home owner or borrower wouldn't want to help an organization that ultimately protects them?

/Anyway, that's my idea...