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Appraiser Cameras

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WH,

I agree with Metamorphic on the battery thing. I understand the notion of easily replaced regular batteries (really, I do) but I believe you are fighting a losing battle and perhaps concentrating on the wrong item as a major factor in which device works out best for everyday use. We find (as also reported by our volume customers) that the most practical thing for dealing with a possible loss in power when out in the field is to carry a car charger for mobile devices. You can usually find something that will work for several devices (phone, laptop, camera, whatever) via adapters. Those that need "immediate" power when away from their vehicle(s) tend to just purchase another spare battery and then pop in in when needed. As Metamorphic correctly recommended, it is best to cycle batteries, but in real life, most folks don't run out of power mid-job and tend to rarely use the second battery, much less cycle them... ;-) Still, we see a lot of appraiser/inspector types order second or extended batteries for their mobile devices... I think a good car charger is a better use of money. How many people buy extended or extra batteries for their cell phones?...

FWIW, most ("shooter") cameras today come with pretty decent batteries which tend to handle several hundred shots (even with flash) before they need recharging and most spare batteries are in the $20 - $30 range. Car chargers, especially generic ones tend to run in the $15 - $25 range. We used to recommend the $17 car charger over the $45 extended battery back in the early Pocket PC days...

As far as shooting comparison pictures, that is a little difficult. This level of camera does not have specific FOV "stops" - they typically have "zooms", so all you can count on is an approximate of their extents - i.e. the minimum and maximums. I have shot comparisons before with different cameras and because of the manufacturing differences between them, it is hard to tell the difference between (say) a 24mm (equiv.) and a 25mm shot. You can, however see the difference between a 28mm and a 25mm or 24mm. Of course, there is a huge difference between a 35mm and 24/25mm. I really don't understand why any appraiser would choose a 35mm lens over a 28mm lens for most residential work. FWIW, the way things work, we tend to be able to discern a (say) 10% difference (i.e. 28mm to 25mm) at the "wide" setting more than we would a 10% difference at the "tele" setting - i.e. 120mm vs. 132mm. Anyway, for most residential work, having a decent wide angle lens is more important than having that "super zoom" capability - i.e. that 380mm or 420mm telephoto. I have an extensive rural appraising background and I understand the need for a zoom when shooting from a distant road, but what I'm discussing is the typical urban/suburban residential assignment where lot sizes are getting smaller and smaller and those back yard shots are more difficult...

I do have, however, a comparison shot (shamelessly ganked from a photography site) which compares a "normal" and wide angle shot from virtually identical cameras (actually a previous model and a new model whose major new feature was a wider angle lens) which was done by a pro. I believe it was something like 36mm vs. 28mm... I will have to search for it and post it later.

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..
 
Another inexpensive solution for rechargeable batteries is a power inverter - I use mine to recharge camera and cell batteries on the fly as well as run my pc tablet and even recharge my scooter.
 
For year I founght the battery battle. I insisted on cameras that used AA batteries because you can but them at almost any market in America (you might have to pay $10 for 2, but you can buy them). Lately it has become harder and harder to find such camera.

The camera I use for most assignments is a Sony with a rechargable battery pack. It will easily go a week or more without recharging. If I do get caught with a dead battery, I just use my Blackberry.
 
One recommendation on the car charger issue.

Check out the iGo system. They're available at radio shack. They have a single model that consists of the cigarette plug and cord, and they sell dozens of different tips that fit just about every kind of phone, lap top, mp3, camera, gameboy, marital aid or what have you. So when you get a new phone instead of shelling out 15 bucks for a new adapter you spend 5 for the new tip. The tips are also nice because they keep down on car clutter. I've got tips for iPod, 2 kinds of motorola phones, and the kids psp but only one cord to deal with. http://www.igo.com/category_adapter.asp
 
Only very slightly off topic - a fellow member here just posted a major score on my favorite DSLR - the Panasonic G1. He got a much better deal than when I got mine several months ago. His price was $660, shipped and he got two Leica lenses. His post shows the link on how to get the second lens for $250 off... :-)

Link to thread: http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=156901&page=2

In an earlier part of the thread, I posted a link to a comprehensive (34 page) review on the camera as well as a shortcut to a sample image. This is a remarkable camera for the money, IMHO. I am only replacing mine because the GH1 is out, but it is nearly 3 times the cost... :-( You really can't appreciate how small and light this DSLR is until you see it. Makes my Nikons and Canons of (not so) old look like the bricks they are, LOL.

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..
 
I've been using a Canon SD800 IS for a few years but the zoom lens mechanism took a gear-grinding dump. Loved the photo quality, the rugged feel and, of course, the wide angle. So, to be loyal to Canon, I picked up an SD1200 without giving it as much thought as I should have. The camera lens is a 35mm equivalent, so shooting a bedroom from a doorway essentially returns a photo of just the closet on the other side of the room... for obvious reasons, this camera is now being passed down the line as a Father's Day gift... :D Good camera, just doesn't fit my needs.

In the interum, I'm using a Nikon D80 with the stock 18-135mm lens, but it's a pain to lug around and I'm always afraid I'm going to bust the thing.

Anyway, based on this invaluable thread, I am looking into buying one of the rugged models, but availability is proving to be questionable. Now don't get me wrong, all of the cameras listed can easily be had from online shops, but I prefer the accountability of a store that I can walk into for service, replacement, return, etc., and I'm usually willing to pay just a bit more for that option. That said, I cannot locate a shop that carries the Lumix DMC-TS1 in my area. Even Panasonic's website says that no one has it within 25 miles of my zip.

*sigh*

So, I was about to go out and grab an Olympus Tough 8000 instead but then I read up on how bad the photos are. Here's a gallery taken by a vacationing family, all with the Tough 8000, that made my decision very easy. Indoor photos have more noise than a Rush concert.

http://travel.webshots.com/album/570827897OPnAfD?vhost=travel

Oh, great! My last chance phone call has yielded a DMC-TS1 at San Jose Camera.

--

Just got back from the store. The sales associate seemed to think that the noise might be just as bad on the TS1 compared to the Tough 8000, but I opted to give it a try anyway. I'll check back in once I've taken it for a test drive on inspections tomorrow.

Thanks again, Randall, for the great thread and pdf.
 
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JTE,

Yes, we found the Canon line to give the best OOTB (Out Of The Box) photos for most users. The SD800 IS was one the last great ones with an optical viewfinder - a feature that many of us sorely miss...

Anyway, I believe I read your last comment to say that you were successful in locating a TS1. Having used both (and admittedly not willing to make any manual or program changes), the TS1 makes better shots than the Tough 8000 IMHO. I've had good results with the TS1's iA mode and have not felt the need to set up any special metering or other settings. YMMV, of course...

Realize that these cameras have a lens system that is more compromised than the typical sliding barrel zoom shooter, so you may need to do some tweaking to a program setting or two to get results equivalent or better than the SD800 IS. On the other hand, you won't have to worry about that zoom mechanism thing again... :-) That said, the sensors are better today than they were 5 years ago and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how well the TS1 does in everyday use, right out of the box.

One note - over the past few years, I have gotten more used to shooting my personal snapshots in the wider 16:9 ratio as they match up better with modern LCD panels (computer 16:10 and HDTV 16:9) and the old 4:3 ratio just feels funny now. AFAIK, the TS1 only allows for 16:9 shots at the 2 MP level - all the others are 4:3. I believe that most forms programs still default (or restrict?) photos to the older 4:3 ratio, so this isn't such a big deal, but I know that I was surprised by this limitation.

Anyway, please give us all your feedback on your daily professional and personal usage experiences with the TS1. Real world feedback is a really important thing to fellow appraisers IMHO.

Last question - which color did you get?

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..
 
24mm - 36mm comparison images

WH,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on the image comparison thing I mentioned earlier. As it turns out, the comparison shot was not from the same camera line, but it was shot by the same photographer of the same building from the same spot. I have posted a low resolution of the comparison shot below and am giving the links to the original (jpg) images.

Original 24mm shot: http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Ricohgx100/Samples/angle/R0011211.JPG

Original 36mm shot: http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Ricohgx100/Samples/angle/DSCF2512.JPG


Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..
 
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Updated PDF

FWIW, I have updated the PDF with updated general pricing (mostly minor downward adjustments on a few items) and have added some new cameras. Summarily, I have:

  • replaced the aged Pentax Optio W60 with the new & improved W80
  • added a page for two Micro Four Thirds DSLR cameras
The page for the Micro Four Thirds DSLR cameras has a brief description on what the Micro Four Thirds thing is all about and why it is important, along with an illustration comparing a regular Panasonic DLSR and their Micro Four Thirds entry.

Basically, these cameras fall into the low-mid price range for DSLR type cameras, but are considerably smaller and lighter than regular DSLR cameras - both body and lenses. They work best with lenses designed for the body and new communication connections but with some minor limitations and compromises, you may still use a variety of traditional SLR lenses via an adapter.

I have only listed two cameras - the newly announced Olympus Pen E-P1 and the commonly available Panasonic G1. I have not included the considerably superior Panasonic GH1 as it is hard to get and much more expensive. These two cameras come from different design/ergonomic perspectives. The E-P1 is like a compact "shooter" camera with DSLR attributes (changeable lenses, superior optics, sensors, etc.) vs. the G1 which takes a "slimmed down DSLR" approach. The E-P1 is smaller and lighter but does not have the look/feel of a DSLR that many prefer. Neither of these cameras is meant to "compete" with the higher end ($1,500 - $4,000+) Canons and Nikons, but offer a superior image and control to the common "prosumer" type cheapies out there. Basically, in the sub-$1000 range, if you rate quality over quantity, you will be attracted to these cameras. If you prefer the mega zoom, all-in-one type specs, you'll likely be more satisfied with the common "UltraZoom" types that are just overgrown shooters in a body the looks & feels like a DSLR. YMMV...

The format for the last page is slightly different per the most pertinent info. I added a link to a preview for the E-P1 and the G1. Note that the pages linked to do not have the most obvious page navigation controls - the control is sort of hidden at the top of each page (see jpg image below.) If this sort of thing interests you, be sure to navigate to the topics of interest - specs, studio shots, movie clips, etc.

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..
 
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Do the 4/3rds overcome the shutter lag problem?
 
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