Are Staff Appraisers paid customary and reasonable fees?

[ucbruin]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE....

 

[George Hatch]

It was your generation that handed out the trophies. Us kids didn't ask for them.
If I'm more productive than the guy who has been there for 20 years, why should I be paid less? Any actual argument?

Well you're right about that. As a group the Boomers are responsible for most of the weaknesses their adult children have. It wasn't all of us, but it was far too many of us.

As for your complaint about your former employer's pay schemes, that seems to run directly in contrast with your primary talking point that companies don't value their employees highly enough. What you're describing is a situation where your employer valued some employees more highly than others.

It's pretty much a moot point in any case because the banks and AMCs that employ staff appraisers tend to lay them off as soon as the volumes slow up. That's how I ended up going solo.

 

[George Hatch]

This doesn't make sense. I don't want someone else's labor/wages. That's the current system. I'm advocating for a society where people aren't handed a fraction of the value they produce.

You seem to have an extremely narrow view of what "produce" means. What would you say the ratio is between appraisers (whose hours can be billed) vs supervisors and managers and office staff and the accounting and all the other overhead that goes with it, but which are not directly billable?

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE....

There is nothing wrong with that if you say it with enthusiasm and sincerity. There are many vets that feel neglected for their service. Many fought in wars they didn't understand, served and sacrificed. If you actually talk to veterans, you will see that service usually affected them in some way.

 

[JeffSH]

You seem to have an extremely narrow view of what "produce" means. What would you say the ratio is between appraisers (whose hours can be billed) vs supervisors and managers and office staff and the accounting and all the other overhead that goes with it, but which are not directly billable?

What ratio? Obviously the office staff would be paid less than the appraisers. But if the office staff helps the appraiser do their job better, then what's the problem? Everyone makes more money with office staff, right?

 

[BRCJR]

The only downturn I experienced was when I was a trainee, and my boss didn't give me any work for an entire fall/winter. Worked at a call-center. Besides that, I've always had work. I'm fearful about this winter, but we shall see.

I have zero desire to run a fee shop and take a piece of someone's work. I will fully support my trainee in going out on their own once they are certified. There is no reason to work for someone else if you are a residential appraiser, unless you can get right-of-way work or other specialty work.

My trainee will receive a base salary of $50k, plus a bonus system that starts at 0 and increases as the person takes less time to supervise. Assuming I need to inspect every appointment, a trainee working full time (7 appraisals per week) would make ~$75k. If I don't have to supervise every inspection, then they'd make closer to $95k. I wouldn't pay for anything, maybe E&O.

It only works if it's busy. I would feel absolutely horrible if I didn't have work for my trainee.

50 week work year (2 weeks vacation).

You will pay a trainee 75,000/50=1500/7 appraisals per week=214.29 per report and they are paying everything but, possibly, insurance. You call that fair?

Are you breaking even or are you are a capitalist after all?

 

[JeffSH]

50 week work year (2 weeks vacation).

You will pay a trainee 75,000/50=1500/7 appraisals per week=214.29 per report.

Are you breaking even or are you are a capitalist after all?

I'm taking some of the $$$ for the training and for my time reviewing each assignment. Of course the trainee is going to be paid less than the supervisor. Say it gets to a point where all that I have to do is give the trainee an order and then review it at the end. I would pay the trainee 80% of the total fee. No expenses paid for though. If I have to be there for the inspection, the trainee would get 65%-70% depending on distance to the subject.

 

[George Hatch]

What ratio? Obviously the office staff would be paid less than the appraisers. But if the office staff helps the appraiser do their job better, then what's the problem? Everyone makes more money with office staff, right?

I think you're missing the point. A certain fraction of what you bill goes to cover the overhead, which includes all of the above. The employer doesn't break even unless/until those fixed/variable expenses are paid, which already means a fractional payment to the appraiser for the hours they billed. If the employer's fixed/variable expenses are 15% of the total then paying you 85% is, at most, a break-even for the employer which gives them no room to generate a reserve to carry them over if they run into collection losses or a reduction in the volumes or other forms of losses.

If their total overhead was 15% and the employer was a non-profit they STILL wouldn't be economically viable if they paid you 85% because there would be zero margin for contingencies. It can't happen.

 

[JeffSH]

If the employer's fixed/variable expenses are 15% of the total then paying you 85% is, at most, a break-even for the employer which gives them no room to generate a reserve to carry them over if they run into collection losses or a reduction in the volumes or other forms of losses....If their total overhead was 15% and the employer was a non-profit they STILL wouldn't be economically viable if they paid you 85% because there would be zero margin for contingencies. It can't happen.

Investing in your business and putting money aside for a rainy day is a great approach. I'm sure the employees would genuinely support what you are thinking and would want to do it, even if it meant a reduction in their current pay. As long as they knew exactly where the money was going and it made sense, the employees would be all for it.

 

[George Hatch]

I'm taking some of the $$$ for the training and for my time reviewing each assignment. Of course the trainee is going to be paid less than the supervisor. Say it gets to a point where all that I have to do is give the trainee an order and then review it at the end. I would pay the trainee 80% of the total fee. No expenses paid for though. If I have to be there for the inspection, the trainee would get 65%-70% depending on distance to the subject.

Back when I was hacking out 1004s I had one fee shop (of the three I was working for) paying me 70% splits. But that was on a 1099 basis, which you basically can't do anymore with a trainee or a fee appraiser. The principal for that operation ran it out of his garage and his wife handled the admin, so his overhead was as low as can be. He still never got ahead. All his fee operation did for him was to service enough clients to ensure that when the volumes dropped they would still be feeding him enough assignments to keep him (only) working.

The other two shops I worked for at that same time paid 50% but they also had offices and paid admin support. No "trainee supervision" or training involved, but they still handled the client end of the business.