Class Action For The Theft Of Appraisers’ Data

[J Grant]

I don't know if the attorneys will pursue it as "data theft", or something different. Will see...heads or tails

Imo, any attempts by appraisers back then would not have withstood legal challenges or been raided/worked around. For staff appraisers their results belong to employers, and since Fannie is one of the entities that on URAR reports get distributed to, how would an appraiser effort to have their own data bank prevented it... ..no profit would have been realized who would pay for appraisal data they already paid a fee for the appraisal and fannie is an intended user...such an effort probably would have led to quicker data appropriation from appraisals for evaluations/alt products...(imo).

 

[J Grant]

I don't know if the attorneys will pursue it as "data theft", or something different. Will see.

An attempt by appraisers back then would not have withstood legal challenges or would have been raided/worked around. For staff appraisers their results belong to employers, and since Fannie is one of the entities that URAR reports get distributed to, how would an appraiser effort to have their own data bank prevented it... ..would have led to quicker appropriation of it for evaluations or replacement product (as we see happening now ) with no or little profit ever reaching the appraisers (imo)

 

[Carnivore]

The warning signs were there that this kind of thing would occur in the future. Technology advancements are leaping ahead. When UAD came out the handwriting was on the wall. Think about all the data you put in the appraisal. What did FNMA focus on that is the most fluid or changeable over time.

1. Effective Age
2. Quality
3. Condition
4. Basement finished/unfinished.
5. Site Value
6. GLA/room/bath count

What is not likely to change

Address
Census Tract

Keep this in mind. Data Gets Old/dated, in other words Stale..
Neighborhoods Change
Gentrification
History of Individual SFR may not change hands at all or very rarely
REFI history of SFR may not occur enough.

So the numbers of appraisers may decline, but I still see a need for appraisers or some variant

Governmental GIS will improve, some will improve slower than others. - Some may even sell the info Some due to privacy laws may not easily allow access

We do know from experience that markets change, sometimes slowly, sometimes rapidly, sometimes unexpectedly, some decline We on the ground know why the computer only knows something changed Possibly there will be a day where computers think and reason.

BUT, since Credit is King...Value is 2nd fiddle

Where they will test appraiser data rich AVM will start with 2nd MTG's and low LTV first.

Additionally the one Stumbling block they have to overcome is the Federal Government and to a lesser degree State Governments.

Hard Money Lenders may be very resistant to sales pitch coming out of the mouths of Corelogic Sales Force.

Here is a Factoid about my County: I get this from a Retired CG who provides All sale data to anyone who subscribes with him. - The Active CG's
in my county use his service. Here is the factoid - He states from his data scub that only about 30-40% of all residential sales go through MLS,
Think about that one for a moment.

I am sun setting. So this will probably not effect me very much if it all.

 

[TRESinc]

What did FNMA focus on that is the most fluid or changeable over time.

2. Quality
3. Condition

i think another big reason for UAD was the way appraisers rated things such as quality and condition. how many reports were out there with avg, avg+, avg-, etc. which meant nothing to the reader?

 

[Carnivore]

i think another big reason for UAD was the way appraisers rated things such as quality and condition. how many reports were out there with avg, avg+, avg-, etc. which meant nothing to the reader?

Agree completely - If you read the UAD definitions they have managed to narrow it down into boxes/descriptions. So there is variance in there..but its manageable.

AND it meant nothing to a computer generated AVM

 

[Overimprovement]

If one is to apply IP laws, one must first identify the P. What, exactly, is the property of the appraiser? What ownership claim could an appraiser have over data the appraiser has assembled from other sources? And, as I asked JG, in the appraisal of my own home, who owns the subject property data? It is MY house. So, why is that not MY data, not the appraiser's?

I would say the simple answer is my opinions. They are mine. You cannot make money off them. The borrower is the least involved in this discussion. Not even an intended user.

No one OWNS the data. Facts are facts. No one owns the fact my house was constructed in 1968. But, analysis and opinions, yes I do own them. I may agree not to disclose those opinions to parties other than the intended users, but again, that does not give them implicit permission to make money off of them. IMHO anyway.

 

[Meandering]

5/26/2017
Spotify has reached a settlement with a group of songwriters who had sued for copyright infringement, eliminating an potential complication to the public offering that the streaming service is planning later this year.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7809561/spotify-settles-class-action-lawsuits-filed-by-david-lowery-and-melissa


June 2017,
Spotify’s $112.5 Million Class-Action Copyright Lawsuit Settlement Approved
initially brought by songwriters David Lowery and Melissa Ferrick

U.S. District Court Judge Alison Nathan

determining how many infringements occurred or defining the exact size of the class at this stage would undermine the benefit of the settlement in reducing litigation burden.

 

[Carnivore]

I would say the simple answer is my opinions. They are mine. You cannot make money off them. The borrower is the least involved in this discussion. Not even an intended user.

No one OWNS the data. Facts are facts. No one owns the fact my house was constructed in 1968. But, analysis and opinions, yes I do own them. I may agree not to disclose those opinions to parties other than the intended users, but again, that does not give them implicit permission to make money off of them. IMHO anyway.

The very reason you complete an appraisal for a lender is for them to make a financial decision.

 

[Overimprovement]

which is no different than the cert you sign when completing a report on a FNMA form. you pay for MLS, lenders pay for your report; MLS allows you to use their data because you pay for it, lenders are allowed to use your data because they pay for it, AND you give them permission to do so.

I understand your point, but...

If it is OK and accepted for appraisers to USE MLS data, so long as they don't RESELL it, then why is it OK for lenders/clients to not only USE appraiser data, but also TO resell it?
I guess I should say not just lenders only, but anyone involved in the chain through which our reports flow?

i think another big reason for UAD was the way appraisers rated things such as quality and condition. how many reports were out there with avg, avg+, avg-, etc. which meant nothing to the reader?

Definitely was room for improvement there! Perhaps if each report simply had a short paragraph or section devoted to condition and quality, that would not have been necessary. Wait, what's that you say? There WAS/IS a section for condition, but most reports simply had/HAVE boilerplate in there? Oh...

If we want to set ourselves apart from hybrid-type folks and AVMs, it would behoove us to really focus on the things that we can add value to--the things a purely mechanical data scrub cannot pick up on--neighborhood, condition, quality, site characteristics--size, setback from road front, etc, and good solid basement descriptions. (see some past recent threads on this). If clients can see the value a good, well-thought out and constructed report can provide, I think many will still opt to use them, even if at a little extra cost. But there has to be some benefit, either better or extra information, AND/OR a more accurate market value, which will lessen loan losses in the future. If we can provide neither of these, it is real hard even for me to argue against the $50 Skippy hybrid.

 

[DWiley]

I would say the simple answer is my opinions. They are mine. You cannot make money off them. The borrower is the least involved in this discussion. Not even an intended user.

No one OWNS the data. Facts are facts. No one owns the fact my house was constructed in 1968. But, analysis and opinions, yes I do own them. I may agree not to disclose those opinions to parties other than the intended users, but again, that does not give them implicit permission to make money off of them. IMHO anyway.

Thanks for a reasoned and rational response. You have expressed a logical position. i would offer two responses. (1) I think one could counter by saying that giving expressed permission for distribution to data collection services is implied consent. It would likely take litigation on that for a definitive answer. (2) the appraiser's opinions are the things of least interest/value to those who are extracting the data, so they might just agree not to use those data elements if they were to lose on point 1.