Class Action For The Theft Of Appraisers’ Data

[TRESinc]

As far as how it differs from our agreement with MLS, already explained it , when I pay for MLS yearly I sign to abide by an agreement with them where I can use MLS data in appraisals, if I went outside that agreement and started re selling MLS data to other parties or using it to get listings etc ( a use outside my agreement )the local board and possibly NAR would be all over it....

which is no different than the cert you sign when completing a report on a FNMA form. you pay for MLS, lenders pay for your report; MLS allows you to use their data because you pay for it, lenders are allowed to use your data because they pay for it, AND you give them permission to do so.

 

[DWiley]

While it is true Cert 21 expressly allows the distribution of an appraisal report to essentially anyone, does this also grant the receiver the right resell the conclusions drawn by the appraiser, such as condition, quality, finished basement space, etc? Letting someone SEE a report is different than allowing someone else to RESELL information contained within the report.

In general, IP laws in this country freely allow the viewing of items--think movies. But once someone (even if they have purchased the movie or product) attempts to profit themselves by it, that is where the line gets crossed.

I can invite 500 people to my house (in my 14'x20' living room, would be interesting) to watch a movie I just purchased, or some sports event on cable, but if I charge even one red cent for admission, I am breaking the law. Courts have generally sided with the owners of those IP rights.

What makes an appraisal report different?

If one is to apply IP laws, one must first identify the P. What, exactly, is the property of the appraiser? What ownership claim could an appraiser have over data the appraiser has assembled from other sources? And, as I asked JG, in the appraisal of my own home, who owns the subject property data? It is MY house. So, why is that not MY data, not the appraiser's?

 

[Meandering]

Because you did not convert it to computer friendly language, you did not gather it, nor are you responsible for your opinion of it.

Asked, answered.


.

 

[Carnivore]

Yes, sign up.... and show the world you did did not know what you have been signing for all these years

View attachment 37351

What does #22 mean? Asking for a Friend.

 

[DWiley]

What does #22 mean? Asking for a Friend.

I think it means just what it says. There may be laws/regulations that apply to disclosure/distribution by the appraiser or lender. For example, there are laws/regulations that require providing a copy to the borrower under certain circumstances.

 

[Evincere]

OK. How, exactly, is that different? Lenders pay for our reports, with both the lender and the appraiser being fully aware of the permission given related to the data in the report (similar to my MLS agreement).

If appraisers wanted to profit from re-sale of data, then they should have jumped on the appraiser national database back in the late 1990s, but they rejected that idea. They were even told back then that if they didn't create a national database that Fannie would, but no one wanted to believe that.

Bolded reason stated disingenuous at best

Having followed the idea of the 1990s AI data base since it was first proposed, it was NEVER about Appraisers wanting to profit from the sale of their data that the scheme was rejected. IT WAS ABOUT their data being taken to feed AVMs and other products now emerging - that they believed back then would eventually put them out of business by promoting products that would decrease market share an keep fees depressed.

The reasons for opposition to data theft then - are just as valid today.

 

[J Grant]

If one is to apply IP laws, one must first identify the P. What, exactly, is the property of the appraiser? What ownership claim could an appraiser have over data the appraiser has assembled from other sources? And, as I asked JG, in the appraisal of my own home, who owns the subject property data? It is MY house. So, why is that not MY data, not the appraiser's?

?? Then don't get a loan or appraisal done so the appraiser cant use "your" data ! Pay cash for your house and never refinance, problem solved ! ( Stretching it now a bit much are we?)

"data: are facts, gleaned , or assembled from many sources.. but the .judgments and conclusions and vetting/research into the components of "data " are part of the appraiser's opinions and judgement . These enrich or correct the lacking or incorrect aspects of raw "data" , transforming it within the appraisal to far more reliable and valuable information...which is being stripped from reports and sold outside of intended use of appraisal perhaps? (which might be a different issue than "distribution",) ,,,,if so, since I am not a lawyer any differentials would be their bailiwick )

 

[DWiley]

...IT WAS ABOUT their data being taken to feed AVMs and other products now emerging - that they believed back then would eventually put them out of business by promoting products that would decrease market share an keep fees depressed.

And, what happened? as predicted, those products came to be anyway. Rather than having them dependent on appraiser data, and having appraisers profit from them, they exist with no benefit to the appraisers. The AIRD model, unlike Fannie and unlike Smart Exchange, was to give the contributing appraiser 50% of the gross amount that any data was sold for. Rather than getting 50%, appraiser rejected the idea and got 0%.

Fannie was smart enough to look ahead and see the power of data. That is why the language about data collection was been part of their forms long before they actually started databasing. Appraisers, on the other hand, were territorial and could not take a long view. So, they ended up holding an empty bucket. If appraisers had grouped together and formed a national data collective the landscape today would look very different.

Seeing how the data is being used, some now want to rekindle the flames of "data theft." LOL. That horse left the barn in 1999.

 

[TRESinc]

"data: are facts, gleaned , or assembled from many sources.. but the .judgments and conclusions and vetting/research into the components of "data " are part of the appraiser's opinions and judgement . These enrich or correct the lacking or incorrect aspects of raw "data" , transforming it within the appraisal to far more reliable and valuable information...which is being stripped from reports and sold outside of intended use of appraisal perhaps? (which might be a different issue than "distribution",) ,,,,if so, since I am not a lawyer any differentials would be their bailiwick )

have you read any of the posts about smartexchange? this data that you think has been transformed into "far more reliable and valuable information" and is highly coveted is pretty much useless based on all posts on the subject with one exception (digger loves it).

I don't think I'd trust the "data" in Skippy's file. I'll keep doing it myself. thanks.

Most appraisers get it wrong anyway, especially on waterfront, rural, high-end, and other complex properties. With the cr@p I review sometimes, it's no wonder we have such a bad reputation. Now we're going to share data? LMMMMMAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I used the smart exchange a few times this past week. Don’t like it. For one thing people grid aspects of a comparable different than I would. And some of it is incorrect.

I noticed that too.

So by the time I've amended their pool comment to what I use in all of my reports (among some other fields) I might as well as just typed the whole d@mn comp myself. No time savings here that I notice (and that was the only reason I thought it may be something useful)

And another reason it doesn't save me any time is because in my market, I've literally had 5+ versions of 1 comp (I'm in a pretty densely populated market). So even if I did want to use 1 ... by the time I figured out "the best" ... again ... I could have just typed it in myself

Let me give you a good example. So in Smart Exchnage I was going to use a comparable. It came up as a listing in Smart Exchange. So I put it in the grid from another appraiser. In the MLS it stated it sold for 500,000, BUT it stated it also sold with another site. When I looked up that other site it stated in the MLS it sold for 200,000. So I called up the agent and talked to him about what was going on. Well in actuality the total transaction price was 700,000 for this property and the adjoining site. Thus acreage and frontage foot had to be changed in the grid. Also in that grid the previous appraiser stated the property was C3 condition. Well when I looked at the pictures in the MLS it looked like a very dated house. So I also asked the agent about this. He said well the property was in good maintenance, but nothing in the house was updated. This house as was nearly 30 years old. Thus to me it is clearly a C4 property. It is obvious the appraiser who put the data in didn’t understand the UAD definition of a C3. Therefore I still have to verify everything. And then there are the occasions where an appraiser may use the MLS GLA only to come to find it’s wrong. So he who blindly uses the Smart Exchange better beware.

 

[DWiley]

"data: are facts, gleaned , or assembled from many sources.. but the .judgments and conclusions and vetting/research into the components of "data " are part of the appraiser's opinions and judgement . These enrich or correct the lacking or incorrect aspects of raw "data" , transforming it within the appraisal to far more reliable and valuable information...which is being stripped from reports and sold outside of intended use of appraisal perhaps? (which might be a different issue than "distribution",) ,,,,if so, since I am not a lawyer any differentials would be their bailiwick )

What is yours or what is original or or what is judgment or what is assignment results means nothing as long as that report has your written permission for distribution to a data collection service. There is no legitimate claim for "data theft" when the report has a built-in permission slip.