Class Action For The Theft Of Appraisers’ Data

[DWiley]

If it is OK and accepted for appraisers to USE MLS data, so long as they don't RESELL it,

Are you reselling MLS data when you put it in the grid of an appraisal report that you charge for? Sorry, I do not see any difference.

 

[DWiley]

There is a big difference between original musical works and data in an appraisal report. One is covered by copyright law and one is not. See the FAQ posted earlier today about copyright of facts and data.

 

[TRESinc]

I understand your point, but...

If it is OK and accepted for appraisers to USE MLS data, so long as they don't RESELL it, then why is it OK for lenders/clients to not only USE appraiser data, but also TO resell it?
I guess I should say not just lenders only, but anyone involved in the chain through which our reports flow?

because life is not fair? because you are not comparing apples to apples? unfortunately it doesn't really matter what the answer is when we give them permission to do pretty much anything they want to do with the report. the only way to stop it would be to no longer complete reports on a FNMA form, but even if every appraiser stopped that tomorrow they would still have millions and millions of gigs of data in the books already.

the only entity i know of that is openly reselling appraiser data is alamode, and they only did so after appraisers gave them permission to do so. that has nothing to do with cert 21 or FNMA.

 

[Evincere]

And, what happened? as predicted, those products came to be anyway. Rather than having them dependent on appraiser data, and having appraisers profit from them, they exist with no benefit to the appraisers. The AIRD model, unlike Fannie and unlike Smart Exchange, was to give the contributing appraiser 50% of the gross amount that any data was sold for. Rather than getting 50%, appraiser rejected the idea and got 0%.

Fannie was smart enough to look ahead and see the power of data. That is why the language about data collection was been part of their forms long before they actually started databasing. Appraisers, on the other hand, were territorial and could not take a long view. So, they ended up holding an empty bucket. If appraisers had grouped together and formed a national data collective the landscape today would look very different.

Seeing how the data is being used, some now want to rekindle the flames of "data theft." LOL. That horse left the barn in 1999.

Yeah as usual, a Simple Simons Mayberry RFD Narrative? Same as saying, Hi There! We're from the IRS and we're here to help you! How is AIs taking policy working out?? Any NEW news to report to their members on the database (that went dark) profits or losses?

So AI wanted to marry FNC and make baby AIRD. Impotent. Fast forward to 2015. FNC is bought by Corelogic for $475,000 million dollars. Has Corelogic abandoned or expanded on FNC's practices? That's a rhetorical question.

Guess, what. Its gets better. Actually, its brilliant. Not only would Appraisers be still be holding an empty bucket with Smartexchange, they would be paying for the privilege of doing so. By doing the Kumbya sharing thingy so as to save typing time.

But anyway, to acknowledge (and borrow) with great thanks to Jonathan Miller who has an uncanny, extraordinary ability to put things into perspective I submit; in part, from his website,

https://www.millersamuel.com/?s=appraisal+institute&type[]=post

"According to CoreLogic, FNC platforms provide “broad connectivity” to approximately 80,000 appraisal, title and inspection vendors, and FNC’s solutions allow industry participants to automate the collateral valuation and diligence process, monitor and optimize vendor performance and facilitate compliance with regulatory and internal risk management policies"

In the early days, FNC needed a data source to run their analytics for banks behind the scenes – the public record wasn’t granular enough. From my vantage point, I always assumed that the FNC backroom business was their real value proposition to lenders so I assumed mining appraisal data was always of critical interest. The Appraisal Institute worked with them to develop or they simply agreed to license their name on a standard called “AI Ready.” This specification was marketed as a value add to software providers. In the AI-Ready FAQ under the section “How does AI Ready(tm) Help Keep Your Appraisals Secure?” I thought this paragraph was particularly interesting:

"Does AppraisalPort keep a copy of your appraisal after you send it? As part of keeping your appraisals secure, AppraisalPort keeps a copy of the appraisal long enough to assure that it was actually delivered to and properly received by the client (we all know that computers are not perfect). After the audit period, it is deleted. It is never shared with anyone. No data is stripped out, separated or used for any other purpose".

Lies. FNC Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed by appraiser Pat Turner and others claimed that it was a way to farm their appraisal data despite being told AppraisalPort was secure and private. The defendents responded and the case was eventually settled.

Here are a few excerpts from Ken Harney’s 2007 article on the FNC lawsuit in the Washington Post: Reprisals on Appraisals

The suit was filed last month by appraisers in Maryland, Virginia and Oklahoma against FNC of Oxford, Miss. FNC markets a high-tech system that converts traditional appraisals into electronic formats, then sends them to mortgage lender customers. FNC says it processes about 400,000 appraisals a month and deals primarily with the 45 to 50 largest mortgage lenders in the country.

and the big one…

The suit quotes Bill Rayburn, FNC’s chief executive, as telling an industry publication, “When an appraisal is transmitted to the lender, we are able to pop it open and suck all the data out.”

Now with the mega sale of FNC, AI National is in an awkward position. It’s a game I call “stupid or liar.” AI National either looks like;

•they have poor business acumen if they opted to take an early buyout; or
•they need to tell their members where the money is.

Either way, AI National hasn’t told their members anything.

UPDATE This FNC-CoreLogic sale link was just shared with me. I wonder if any of the 45 millionaires created by the FNC purchase were connected with AI?

UPDATE2 Apparently there is an AI Ready website. The “PARTICIPATING AIREADY SOFTWARE VENDORS” section indicates the site has been kept updated. The “about” section shows how AI Ready was a branding vehicle for FNC to move data into a universal format:

Before AI Ready™, which uses FNC’s Open Appraisal Document Interface (OADI) technology, industry consensus on a standard for appraisal transmission was non-existent. The OADI was designed as an interface specification for the transfer of proprietary appraisal data formats into the open AI XML standard and vice versa. The interface provides appraisal document software companies a common application programming interface (API) for translation of their data into the standard format

Update3 AppraisalPort – the appraisal web portal of many mortgage lenders to communicate with appraisers, was built by FNC and displays the AI Ready brand on their home page suggesting there is a continued relationship between the firms.

Hows AIs taking policy working out??

 

[djd09]

As the author of the report, i state the data that is not public information may not be used for any purpose unless this appraiser gives written consent. Lawyers are wonderful.

 

[DWiley]

Yeah as usual, a Simple Simons Mayberry RFD Narrative? Same as saying, Hi There! We're from the IRS and we're here to help you! How is AIs taking policy working out?? Any NEW to report to their members on the database profits or losses?

So AI wanted to marry FNC and make baby AIRD. Impotent. Fast forward to 2015. FNC is bought by Corelogic for $475,000 million dollars. Has Corelogic has abandoned or expanded on FNC's practices? That's a rhetorical question.

Guess, what. Its gets better. Actually, its brilliant. Not only would Appraisers be still be holding an empty bucket with Smartexchange, they would be paying for the privilege of doing so. By doing the Kumbya sharing thingy so as to save typing time.

But anyway, to acknowledge (and borrow) with great thanks to Jonathan Miller who has an uncanny, extraordinary ability to put things into perspective I submit; in part, from his website,

https://www.millersamuel.com/?s=appraisal+institute&type[]=post







Lies. FNC Lawsuit



Here are a few excerpts from Ken Harney’s 2007 article on the FNC lawsuit in the Washington Post: Reprisals on Appraisals



and the big one…



Now with the mega sale of FNC, AI National is in an awkward position. It’s a game I call “stupid or liar.” AI National either looks like;

•they have poor business acumen if they opted to take an early buyout; or
•they need to tell their members where the money is.

Either way, AI National hasn’t told their members anything.

UPDATE This FNC-CoreLogic sale link was just shared with me. I wonder if any of the 45 millionaires created by the FNC purchase were connected with AI?

UPDATE2 Apparently there is an AI Ready website. The “PARTICIPATING AIREADY SOFTWARE VENDORS” section indicates the site has been kept updated. The “about” section shows how AI Ready was a branding vehicle for FNC to move data into a universal format:

Before AI Ready™, which uses FNC’s Open Appraisal Document Interface (OADI) technology, industry consensus on a standard for appraisal transmission was non-existent. The OADI was designed as an interface specification for the transfer of proprietary appraisal data formats into the open AI XML standard and vice versa. The interface provides appraisal document software companies a common application programming interface (API) for translation of their data into the standard format

Update3 AppraisalPort – the appraisal web portal of many mortgage lenders to communicate with appraisers, was built by FNC and displays the AI Ready brand on their home page suggesting there is a continued relationship between the firms.

Hows AIs taking policy working out??

LOL. You really need a clue. AIReady and AIRD were two totally separate things AIRD would have been one of the best things ever for appraisers if they had not been so short sighted. But, they rejected it and now, they sit back and moan about "theft"
of "their" data. You are right about one thing, if appraiser had embraced AIRD several would have realized some very serious coin.

 

[Evincere]

LOL. You really need a clue. AIReady and AIRD were two totally separate things AIRD would have been one of the best things ever for appraisers if they had not been so short sighted. But, they rejected it and now, they sit back and moan about "theft"
of "their" data. You are right about one thing, if appraiser had embraced AIRD several would have realized some very serious coin.

That much coin, eh? Several? Seems like a small number?

 

[Overimprovement]

Thanks for a reasoned and rational response. You have expressed a logical position. i would offer two responses. (1) I think one could counter by saying that giving expressed permission for distribution to data collection services is implied consent. It would likely take litigation on that for a definitive answer. (2) the appraiser's opinions are the things of least interest/value to those who are extracting the data, so they might just agree not to use those data elements if they were to lose on point 1.

I think I mostly agree with your point 1. There is a separation of course between what "is" and what perhaps "should be". We all know appraisers' rights have been at the low end of the totem pole for most of history. The ramifications of no unifying body forming in the last 30 years are becoming more clear.

I do think I have a slightly different perspective on what cert 21's boundaries really are, but that is my opinion, which you may feel free to use for your own monetary profit. I think though that our opinions are what the current data models are likely most interested in. I mean GLA and year built and even location are pretty solid facts for most homes today. Our Q, C, and perhaps basement descriptions are likely some of the behind the scenes power behind both CU and the newer AVM models. There has to be some difference between them, they can't all just be going on information in the MLS and county assessor sites. If so, they would pretty much be expected to come up with similar values. Even if they do not disclose that they are using such opinions, it is certainly possible that they are.

But, as my last post on this topic anyway, I will just say I am still fairly busy these days, and still working on my longer range plans for when I may not be so busy with mortgage related work. I am more realist than anything, and may dislike something (like the AMC model) while still accepting its reality and my continuing choice to remain in this profession. I will always have the freedom to choose my profession!

 

[djd09]

They will tell you anything not to have to pay for information. Now you know where the 'cheap' from cheap and fast comes from.

I remember when CU was just a risk review tool. Ok i can agree to that, but not using the data to Waive appraisals. And isn't this what is all about. PIW's. Those dum dums cannot even name their product correctly.

 

[Eli]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.py...-fargo-cross-selling-sales-practice-fine/amp/

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.