Class Action For The Theft Of Appraisers’ Data

[Evincere]

Data mining? I did not use that term, and neither does Cert 21. Can you point to any language in Cert 21 that limits use of a distributed report? I can point to language that prohibits an appraiser from adding such language

I?

.

So your throwing my question back at me?

I wrote;

Surely the report per cert 21 can be “distributed”

I asked;

Can you point to the the words datamining specifically in cert 21? Or in your opinion is the term distribution the equivalent used to imply data mining as well?

 

[Evincere]

.

These threads about "theft" of data make me grin a little.

I’d venture to say these data theft threads make you grin more than... just a little.

 

[Carnivore]

Well this is not exactly a perfect example, but it does recognize or at least point to the possibility of a lawsuit on appraisal copyright protection in a more broader sense.

http://www.workingre.com/appraiser-wins-copyright-suit/

 

[DWiley]

I’d venture to say these data theft threads make you grin more than... just a little.

On that you would be correct. Some have been barking up this tree for over twenty years now. If there really is a legitimate case, then where are all the successful actions on this? So yes, I am chuckling about this one coming around again. What next? Do you take your shoes off? Typing in all caps? What other topic will be dissected here for the upteenth time?

As for your data mining question, the reports that we deliver on GSE forms contain our own written permission for distribution to data collection services. We all know (check that, should know) this when we agree to accept the assignments and deliver on those forms. To subsequently claim, "I really didn't mean it," or "I didn't realize the ramifications of that" just seems a little disingenuous to me - especially when our whole profession is built on doing the very same thing some want to claim as "wrong" when others do it. Appraisers are the kings and queens of extracting data from other sources and using it, often without expressed permission, for our own financial gain.

 

[DWiley]

Well this is not exactly a perfect example, but it does recognize or at least point to the possibility of a lawsuit on appraisal copyright protection in a more broader sense.

http://www.workingre.com/appraiser-wins-copyright-suit/

Copyright covers copying, not extraction. Copyright does not cover data. Even the famous company that was going to use copyright law to "save" appraisers finally had to admit that. Mr. V's lawsuit had nothing to do with data extraction, though he and the ice cream vendors sure made a lot of money feeding off the fear that they fueled. You may recall that a couple of appraisers actually had the copyright office help us extract data from reports with registered copyrights, just to demonstrate that copyright law did not cover data extraction. Anyone can check the Forum archives if they want the full story.

 

[Carnivore]

Well this is not exactly a perfect example, but it does recognize or at least point to the possibility of a lawsuit on appraisal copyright protection in a more broader sense.

http://www.workingre.com/appraiser-wins-copyright-suit/

So lets take this a step further. Where does it ever say in any report that you produce that might or may be giving up your rights under copyright. It does not as far as I can tell, but it may elude to that right but it does not say clearly and explicitly say that you have. I think FNMA does say something about it in the selling guide or somewhere else in their publications.

What I seem to think is that it is there but veiled to some degree. It would seem like to me that it would be something conspicuously and singularly incorporated within the report format by them. It is not! No one is completely safe from the law of the land!

Probably the entities most vulnerable to copyright infringement may be the AMC's and someone like corelogic.

Frankly I do not know if I am copyright infringing when I use MLS photos. Maybe, maybe not or most likely its very possible.

Never say never!

 

[TRESinc]

Frankly I do not know if I am copyright infringing when I use MLS photos. Maybe, maybe not or most likely its very possible.

just like opting in to a free service, you must read what you are agreeing to before you agree to it. i'd suggest you drop what you are doing right now and go review the rules for your local MLS regarding pictures and what you can and cannot do.

 

[Evincere]

On that you would be correct. Some have been barking up this tree for over twenty years now. If there really is a legitimate case, then where are all the successful actions on this? So yes, I am chuckling about this one coming around again. What next? Do you take your shoes off? Typing in all caps? What other topic will be dissected here for the upteenth time?

As for your data mining question, the reports that we deliver on GSE forms contain our own written permission for distribution to data collection services. We all know (check that, should know) this when we agree to accept the assignments and deliver on those forms. To subsequently claim, "I really didn't mean it," or "I didn't realize the ramifications of that" just seems a little disingenuous to me - especially when our whole profession is built on doing the very same thing some want to claim as "wrong" when others do it. Appraisers are the kings and queens of extracting data from other sources and using it, often without expressed permission, for our own financial gain.

Oh..mea culpa. I never realized that as Kings and Queens of data extraction (thank you- excellent testimonial/acknowledgement/compliment) utilized for analysis to form OUR OPINION OF VALUE (which the data collectors would not have or be able to “collect”) required expressed permission from the sources utilized - beyond the cost of what WE pay to procure/acquire the data used to form OUR professional OPINIONS.

So if I pay for a cake mix (MLS,Realist,Datamaster,etc) who “distributed” the product to retailers - who owns the cake after it’s mixed, molded made to completion.

In all that you wrote you evaded a reply to;

“Can you point to the the words datamining specifically in cert 21? Or in your opinion is the term ”distribution” the equivalent used to imply data mining as well?

 

[TRESinc]

So if I pay for a cake mix from the grocery store who “distributed” the product to retailers - who owns the cake after it’s made.

just like an appraisal (the cake) you completed the client (recipient of the cake) now owns it and can do with it as they please - eat it all, put it in the freezer or even distribute the data (the stuff inside the frosting) to anyone they want to, even a cake collection service!

 

[DWiley]

...beyond the cost of what WE pay to procure/acquire the data used to form OUR professional OPINIONS.

Do your clients not pay you to procure/acquire the reports that you produce?

I am just trying to see why it is OK for us to pay for a service (like MLS), extract data/info from that service and use it to produce something that we sell, but it is not OK for our clients to do exactly the same thing. In twenty+ years no appraiser has ever given me a straight answer on that one.