Class Action For The Theft Of Appraisers’ Data

[Evincere]

Can you point to the the words datamining specifically in cert 21? Or in your opinion is the term distribution the equivalent used to imply data mining as well

Do your clients not pay you to procure/acquire the reports that you produce?

I am just trying to see why it is OK for us to pay for a service (like MLS), extract data/info from that service and use it to produce something that we sell, but it is not OK for our clients to do exactly the same thing. In twenty+ years no appraiser has ever given me a straight answer on that one.

No question we are paid for our opinions. And our opinions inclusive of entire SOW ie rents, etc) are thereafter used for lending decisions - which is what actually gives the data aggregation rendering those opinions “value”. The aggregation of information Analysis and summary that lead to that ONE number that everyone hangs their hats on.

Interesting that while Appraisal forms are more or less generic formats that contain data culminating in an opinion which inherently has “” “value” of its own that stands alone, providers of AVMs,Hybrids, propriety on line desktops are suing the crap out of each other claiming copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property.

While you have the question of 20 years standing, Apparently it will take greater genius than yourself to answer a question you admittedly do not have the answers too. Yet, you are as guilty as anyone else for supporting your position to the contrary (theft of data) by hanging your own hat on the word “distribution”

It may be the answers lie in royalties.

 

[DWiley]

While you have the question of 20 years standing, Apparently it will take greater genius than yourself to answer a question you admittedly do not have the answers too.

It may be the answers lie in royalties.

Oh, I have an answer. I was just looking for YOUR answer. I mean, you pay for MLS access. The MLS system does not exist primarily to accommodate appraisers. It exists as a marketing tool for agents. Yet, we pay for access, and we use the information for another use - to create a product (an appraisal report) that we then sell. So, we extract data from a system designed for some other purpose, and use it as we wish to generate our incomes.

How, exactly, is there any difference between what we do as appraisers and a client buying a report from us, and then using the data therein to produce something else? Sauce, for the goose?

 

[Evincere]

Can you point to the the words datamining specifically in cert 21? Or in your opinion is the term distribution the equivalent used to imply data mining as well

Do your clients not pay you to procure/acquire the reports that you produce?

I am just trying to see why it is OK for us to pay for a service (like MLS), extract data/info from that service and use it to produce something that we sell, but it is not OK for our clients to do exactly the same thing. In twenty+ years no appraiser has ever given me a straight answer on that one.

No question we are paid for our opinions. And our opinions inclusive of entire SOW ie rents, etc) are thereafter used for lending decisions - which is what actually gives those opinions “value”. The aggregation of information Analysis and summary that lead to that ONE number that everyone hangs their hats on.

Interesting that while Appraisal forms are more or less generic formats that contain data culminating in an opinion which inherently has “” “value” of its own that stands alone, providers of AVMs,Hybrids, propriety on line desktops are suing the crap out of each other claiming copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property.

While you have the question of 20 years standing, Apparently it will take greater genius than yourself to answer a question you admittedly do not have the answers too.

It may be the answers lie in royalties.

Oh, I have an answer. I was just looking for YOUR answer. I mean, you pay for MLS access. The MLS system does not exist primarily to accommodate appraisers. It exists as a marketing tool for agents. Yet, we pay for access, and we use the information for another use - to create a product (an appraisal report) that we then sell. So, we extract data from a system designed for some other purpose, and use it as we wish to generate our incomes.

How, exactly, is there any difference between what we do as appraisers and a client buying a report from us, and then using the data therein to produce something else? Sauce, for the goose?

Sorry. That’s not an answer. It’s a rationalization. Hello. Pot calling kettle black

 

[J Grant]

Oh, I have an answer. I was just looking for YOUR answer. I mean, you pay for MLS access. The MLS system does not exist primarily to accommodate appraisers. It exists as a marketing tool for agents. Yet, we pay for access, and we use the information for another use - to create a product (an appraisal report) that we then sell. So, we extract data from a system designed for some other purpose, and use it as we wish to generate our incomes.

How, exactly, is there any difference between what we do as appraisers and a client buying a report from us, and then using the data therein to produce something else? Sauce, for the goose?

I'm not an attorney ( I just play one on TV) .But the difference is, as appraisers we pay the MLS for access, and since we join as an appraiser, they are aware we use MLS data in appraisal reports. I assume they allow us to do that knowing their own self interest is served by appraisers submitting reports which is part of the process for borrowers loan.

We use a variety of data sources in our appraisal reports. A client pays for the report and we are aware they can distribute it to other users. A user, tries tries sell segments of the report , such as sketches or conclusions ( our conclusions get baked into vetted data, result of our efforts).

RE, , the "data" on appraisal grid/in report is qualified and vetted and thus a result of our efforts, vs raw data we import from sources(, such as MLS or public records). MLS has the incorrect data of a house as 2100 sf because they included garage, I verified/found the issue and subtracted the garage for the correct 1800 sf for the house. The conclusion that most reliable sf is 1800 sf is result of my efforts, not raw data I imported.

Perhaps an attorney sees something in that. I don't know how an attorney interprets things or if the suit will have any success, but I assume attorneys would not waste their time bringing about a suit if there was zero merit to it.

 

[DWiley]

... I assume attorneys would not waste their time bringing about a suit if there was zero chances or merit to it.

Logical. Does that explain the lack of suits despite appraisers barking up this tree for over two decades?

 

[J Grant]

Logical. Does that explain the lack of suits despite appraisers barking up this tree for over two decades?

Can't say, never followed them. Perhaps something is different this time with wider spread internet usage, perhaps not. I don't have much riding on this...imo it is the least of appraisers problems . Whether a class action suit will ever come about, or be successful regarding fees would be more interesting, probably I will be out of the field by the time that happens.

 

[DWiley]

Sorry. That’s not an answer. It’s a rationalization. Hello. Pot calling kettle black

I have no action to rationalize. I was just asking you to address the question I posed, but you, like so many over the years, just dodged it.

 

[Carnivore]

This is interesting...
https://www.redfin.com/about/terms-of-use

 

[TRESinc]

I'm not an attorney ( I just play one on TV) .But the difference is, as appraisers we pay the MLS for access, and since we join as an appraiser, they are aware we use MLS data in appraisal reports. I assume they allow us to do that knowing their own self interest is served by appraisers submitting reports which is part of the process for borrowers loan.

We use a variety of data sources in our appraisal reports. A client pays for the report and we are aware they can distribute it to other users. A user, tries tries sell segments of the report , such as sketches or conclusions ( our conclusions get baked into vetted data, result of our efforts).

RE, , the "data" on appraisal grid/in report is qualified and vetted and thus a result of our efforts, vs raw data we import from sources(, such as MLS or public records). MLS has the incorrect data of a house as 2100 sf because they included garage, I verified/found the issue and subtracted the garage for the correct 1800 sf for the house. The conclusion that most reliable sf is 1800 sf is result of my efforts, not raw data I imported.

Perhaps an attorney sees something in that. I don't know how an attorney interprets things or if the suit will have any success, but I assume attorneys would not waste their time bringing about a suit if there was zero merit to it.

no, it is the same thing. here is your statement broken down:

as appraisers we pay the MLS for access, and since we join as an appraiser, they are aware we use MLS data in appraisal reports.

as lenders they pay for appraisal reports, and since they are lenders who order on FNMA forms they are aware that they have permission to use the report they paid for as they see fit per the pre-printed cert.

We use a variety of data sources in our appraisal reports. A client pays for the report and we are aware they can distribute it to other users. A user, tries tries sell segments of the report , such as sketches or conclusions ( our conclusions get baked into vetted data, result of our efforts).

no argument there, everything is progressing by the terms we as appraisers agreed to. the client paid for the report, which they now have, and can use or distribute as they see fit.

RE, , the "data" on appraisal grid/in report is qualified and vetted and thus a result of our efforts, vs raw data we import from sources(, such as MLS or public records). MLS has the incorrect data of a house as 2100 sf because they included garage, I verified/found the issue and subtracted the garage for the correct 1800 sf for the house. The conclusion that most reliable sf is 1800 sf is result of my efforts, not raw data I imported.

you were paid for your data gathering, analysis and conclusion. the lender does not pay us for a number, they pay us for the service we provide, namely the data collection, analysis and reporting. once we give that completed report to our client they can now use or distribute it as they see fit because we granted them that permission by using the FNMA form.

Perhaps an attorney sees something in that. I don't know how an attorney interprets things or if the suit will have any success, but I assume attorneys would not waste their time bringing about a suit if there was zero merit to it.

as stated in this thread if there was any merit to a case of this nature it would have been pursued at some point, and been successful, over the past 2 decades but that has not happened in either case.

 

[djd09]

If you think or do not want to be a part of , do not sign the petition. There will be many more lawsuits in the near future where you can participate;