Data Cancer found....

[George Hatch]

WRT NAR's motivations, the role of the broker is to advocate for the deal. Enough so that they don't even look at value the same way appraisers do

• Broker's version of MV - "one willing buyer+one willing seller"
• Appraiser's version - "Most probable among many, not just one".

Both roles have their place in the market but I think it's a big mistake for appraisers to judge brokers off of expectations which don't apply to them, and vice versa. If I were a broker I'd be fretting about losing the opportunity to mount an ROV to the AVMs that the GSEs are using. Not because the AVM is right but because it's an AVM that can't be threatened or coerced or indirectly pressured or denied entry.

 

[J Grant]

Even on a cash sale, the seller or buyer or both could have ordered an independent appraiser on their own.

Some cash sales do order an appraisal, and a number of "cash" sales also apply for financing- a cash sale on MLS just means there was no financing contingency, though in some cases a contract can have an additional clause that no mortgage be applied for -

 

[J Grant]

RE agents are not under any obligation to price a property for listing or negotiate for a CS price aimed at "market value."

Market value is a fuzzy concept term used by the general public and RE agents - though some agents have a sense of responsibility to their clients or community to avoid crazy prices, many are just in competition to get a listing and then driven to get a deal done, and keep their fingers crossed it will "make value" in an appraisal

I imagine they like when a property gets a WAIVER - no chance after that of a "low" appraisal messing up their deal-

 

[George Hatch]

The brokers sometimes have no say on the initial listing price - sometimes the sellers are calling the shots.

I think it might be a mistake to make any assumptions as to how often/seldom the GSE AVM is out of line with the market. I would guess that both variations occur under certain conditions.

I'd be interested to learn how consistently wrong the GSE AVM is when compared to how consistently wrong the appraisals are.

 

[alebrewer]

The threshold has been raised to 90% LTV loans for waivers now.

You may want to re-read the guide...

 

[J Grant]

The brokers sometimes have no say on the initial listing price - sometimes the sellers are calling the shots.

I think it might be a mistake to make any assumptions as to how often/seldom the GSE AVM is out of line with the market. I would guess that both variations occur under certain conditions.

I'd be interested to learn how consistently wrong the GSE AVM is when compared to how consistently wrong the appraisals are.

How does one judge what "wrong" is wrt market value?

The only way is if assuming the sale price is reasonable if the MV estimate in an AVM or MVO in an appraisal is in close range to it. But if a sale price is under or over prevailing/what the property is worth with its features, then the estimate or opinion of MV matching such a price is not a good indicator.

AVM's have confidence scores around their point values ( as you probably are aware )

 

[George Hatch]

As far as the GSEs raising their max LTVs on these things, it sure seems like a big coincidence that they did that in the current political environment. A cynical mind might even question the assumption that its all about greed.

 

[George Hatch]

How does one judge what "wrong" is wrt market value?

The only way is if assuming the sale price is reasonable if the MV estimate in an AVM or MVO in an appraisal is in close range to it. But if a sale price is under or over prevailing/what the property is worth with its features, then the estimate or opinion of MV matching such a price is not a good indicator.

AVM's have confidence scores around their point values ( as you probably are aware )

WRT appraisals vs MV we do have a feedback loop that we can check in order to see how we did in the past. I do that on my own work on a regular basis.

I don't know, but I would SWAG that the GSEs might be running their AVM and comparing its results to every appraisal they're using, not just for their waiver program. If it were me that's what I would do; it don't cost nothin'. If so then they might already KNOW what those comparisons look like.

 

[Mejappz]

Since you were able to find my home, my backyard, and my deer, I'm sure it would have been easy for you to locate my email and phone number as well. I think a true professional would have reached out privately to ask questions instead of obnoxiously thrashing me on this forum.

It's great to see you on the forum, Phil. I hope you post more often. In addition to doxing your home, he also called you a liar and an idiot.

 

[George Hatch]

The truth is a defense against slander. That info has been out in public for many years. All anyone has to do is to RTFM. They've "disclosed" their role all along. This disclosure doesn't represent any reversal of any type in their policies. There's no "gotcha" to claim or imply.

And while we're at it, if you and Chad are trying to imply this is a reversal or is in any way new then you're both either idiots or liars, too. Pick one, because there is no 3rd explanation for the factual error.
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And BTW, I thought the crack about me doxxing his home was a typo. Because IRL the county records for the $430k property don't show the name that he uses as the property owner. So if those records are in error then I apologize for not being able to read his mind to know otherwise from 2000 miles away.