FAIR Fee Apprasiers Involved in Regulation

[Nancy in Friday Harbor]

Steve, Tom, David et al,
Check's printed & I'm on the way to the post office!!!
Count me in.
Nancy

 

[George Hatch]

To all,

Thinking out loud here.......

We should probably try to define some common and achievable goals. I don't think that 'storming the castle and burning the flag' as a goal is going to attract very much credibility or long-term support. It might be okay to be an advocate for due process and individual and professional rights, but not at the expense of condoning unethical and illegal behavior among appraisers. The ends cannot justify our means, any more than they can justify the means of a 'rogue' board.

Ironically, there would be no need for a grass-roots organization of appraisers if the states themselves adopted a uniform standard of enforcement. The state appraisal board organization (AARO) has already missed a golden opportunity to take control of the situation and strengthen the states' rights argument. They could have developed and adopted such a code of enforecement as a group. If the states won't develop such a code then the ASC should do it. It is not too late for either group to resolve this now. It may be that our best course of action is to try and influence one or both of the above groups to simply take care of their own business.

Another very effective method of operation might include providing technical assistance to appraisers who are under investigation to defend themselves. Assistance by way of helping them or their attorney to understand, define and communicate how their actions are or are not in compliance with the applicable standards. It may be that many investigations can be resolved prior to reaching a formal hearing.

I would prefer to believe that ethical appraisers and their state boards share many if not all of the same goals. The states don't want crooked appraisers victimizing the public and neither do we. The states want every appraiser to work off of the same standard of conduct and so do we. The states want to spend their limited funds wisely and according to their greatest needs as do we. I think our biggest area for concern is the lack of uniformity and reasonableness among the state boards. There are many states with which we apparently have no quarrel, meaning that we perceive their actions to be reasonable. That is the kind of relationship we seek for all state boards. Sadly, there are some states where a crooked appraiser can fleece the public at will; In other states every complaint recieved is considered to be founded, regardless of the source or nature of the complaint.

We should possibly be lobbying for the state boards to receive more funding from the feds so that they can better implement the standards. We should definitely be lobbying the feds to provide better training and guidance to the states. We should definitely lobby the feds and the Appraisal Foundation to be more responsive to those legitimate concerns the state boards have. We should be giving recognition and applause for the things the various boards (probably the majority of them) are doing right, and beseech them to change those things that they may not be doing right.

This process need not be adversarial in nature, and indeed, should not automatically be confrontational at every turn. Many of the complaints lodged against appraisers with the state boards have at least some merit, while a smaller percentage do not. Under no circumstances should we protect the guilty.

I personally don't believe in litigation as the front line of defense. IMO, we should reserve that as a last resort, when all other measures have failed. I would define such failure as when an appraiser's personal and professional rights are being trampled, particularly as a result of incompetent and/or vindictive enforcement activities by a state board.

It looks like there may be several different courses of action that we can take, with many opportunities for involvement among the individual members. To each their strengths. I guess it's like anything else. You can either be part of the problem or you can be part of the solution.


George Hatch

 

[Nancy in Friday Harbor]

Steve,
Did I read that you'd gotten Kathryn Gearheard involved? I took my very first USPAP course from her 10 years ago in Seattle. She is an extremely knowledgeable appraiser -- from Oregon, if my memory serves -- and was part of the group that wrote the original USPAP.
If you could get her on board, she might be a real ally in the struggle to get the ASC to expand their scope and press for uniformity of enforcement with the state boards.

George, Your points are well taken. Among the various members of this forum, there appears to be an incredible amount of knowledge and experience -- as well as contacts.

Nancy

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

George:

I do not believe it could have been said better and some of your comments should be added to our constitution so at some future date the group does not turn adversarial. Nancy I spoke with Kathryn Gearheard a couple years back. She did seem very knowledgeable. I have only spoke with her via E-mail since.


Steve Vertin

 

[Head Surfer]

I will also donate money. Hope I can catch up on past posts, including Tom and Dave's cases in more depth. I believe that a web site is certainly needed and would be pleased if it could be part of this forum. I know that Wayne will step up if it is possible, but certainly understand if it is not. It sure would help attract more members, though, would'nt it? :lol:

I can provide a "user group" via this forum for this project if you like. You guys could use it for discussions and actions toward your goals. User groups can be public, private, hidden, open or closed, etc. See our FAQ for more about User Groups and you can decide which will best meet your purpose: http://appraisersforum.com/forums/FAQ.php#30

If you decide you want this let me know, and also let me know who the moderator is. We set up an ACI user group with Dave Smith as Moderator and, although it is still new, it seems to be working pretty good so far.

Or if there is anything else you need in my area of expertise (internet, web hosting, servers, domain names, etc) let me know and I will provide it.

 

[Austin]

George brought up a point that I keep hearing people say and that is an implication that some of us involved in this reform action just want to bend the rules and overlook crooks in the business. I don’t think that is fair or a valid criticism. That is not what I want at all and I don’t think anybody else does either. I live in Virginia, only five miles from North Carolina, and the only time I have ever hear from the Virginia State Appraisal Board is every two years when I renew my license. I have heard of no bank failures or any other consequences of bad appraisal practice in Virginia, but to the contrary, you would think North Carolina is a den of iniquity. How can you have two states side by side with a common border and one state is gliding along in smooth waters and the other is in a constant tempest of rough seas? Are the people of North Carolina a den of thieves? What is it?
I was licensed in both states at one time by examination. The Virginia board exam was a piece of cake. I took both elements in about an hour and didn’t have to think. I took the NC exam, and I mean that was an exam, and it took 4.5 hours just to get through it once. How do you explain it?
Yesterday I was looking through the MLS book for comps and I think I can answer the question. If I wanted to, I could bring every Realtor in the entire region up on charges. I know from experience that none of the houses are measured correctly, I saw doublewide manufactures homes with no indication in the MLS they were manufactured homes, I saw numerous houses with finished basement area counted as total gross living area, I see split foyers all the time listed as two story houses, and mention of Florida Rooms sometimes counted as GLA and some times not. I know for a fact that there is not a Realtor in town that can accurately measure a 1.5 story dwelling, and the list goes on. Why don’t I turn them in and stir up a hornet’s nest? Answer: It has always been that way. The sky is not falling, the system is working, so why bother. I have said to myself a thousand times, if some lawyer wanted to go after Realtors I could give then enough information to keep them busy til the cows come home. Everything has its natural balance, and there is a time to act and a time to do nothing. There has to be a rational balance, and for some reason state boards like NC are just out of whack. The bottom line is that NC put a gaggle of political appointed novice appraisers on a state board, gave them police power, they had never had that kind of authority before, and went on a rampage to show their authority. Sad but true. Discretion is the most difficult human quality to describe. What is it and where does it come from? Some have and some don’t. That is why we need FAIR, because some don't.

 

[Will Granger]

I'll send a check on Wed. Good job!

 

[David C. Johnson]

Founding Fathers of

<span style='color:darkblue'>Sounds like a real good idea to me. Count me in.

I will match Steve and Tom's $100 with the same myself, and mail tomorrow.

Down the road, we might consider ways for the organization to be financially self-sustaining. The proceeds from a well-selected lawsuit (perhaps even a class action) going to FAIR's trust fund and/or legal fund might do the job for many years at a time.

I believe we should attempt right from the start to widen the appeal of FAIR to those who need it the most -- those who have no use for it at all. These appraisers understand they could never have any problem because they do good work!

But, remember, some of us were only able to learn what "high risk" means after some very expensive firsthand experience. Without my hard earned knowledge, I would have been a real tough sell -- I would have had zero interest in joining such organization.

For example, one reason I can't get too upset with Brad Ellis and his noncommittal attitude toward STD-3 and his "pats on the back" of the OBRE (IL's appraisal board) is because he reminds me of me -- or rather, how I very likely might think and behave if I did not know better.

I am convinced this will be our most serious, most underestimated challenge: We need to figure out how to best reach those the organization is actually created to assist and protect. Eventually the majority of the nation's appraisal community may view the organization as a prudent and responsible membership to hold -- but not at first.

Also, the very act of joining such an organization may pose a perceived (or even a real) risk to the individual appraiser. We need to consider this issue very carefully. Could a known card-carrying member of FAIR actually, in some small way, "encourage the attention" of a rouge board?

We need to soundly conquer this unspoken, but very concrete concern. We must have a mechanism to counter the phenomenon cold. The ideal solution(s) must confer just the opposite affect to a member of FAIR. And it must be real. (Aside from perhaps offering anonymity if requested, I have no good ideas on the issue yet.)

Thanks, Steve and Tom for getting this ball rolling. I think it could work. I know it's overdue. Let me know how I can help in any way.

Regards,

David C. Johnson, Raleigh, NC</span>

 

[Will Granger]

David, Tom, Steve
Is there any merit in having FAIR under the banner of the Appraisal Section of NAR? There is some political power there. :idea:

 

[Judy Whitehead (Florida)]

Hi everyone. I'm sending my $100 today. I agree, I still am interested in NAR and the appraisal division. They swing a lot of political clout. I also think that we appraisers could benefit/educate the Realtors, and I also think that any appraiser who does not have a good working knowledge of the Realtors' business and members in their area is missing a lot, including keeping your pulse on the pace of the community. At least it is in my area. I guess we are lucky enough to have a really good active Association of Realtors. Remember, one of the things the Realtors initiated was a victim's recovery fund, to assist those who were fleeced and help them recover money lost to crooked Realtors. I know that is another side of the coin, but policing your own is a good idea. Helping your own is even better! :lol: