Have and have not, goodbye America

[IlliniApp]

Hmm, a country of 5 million people of mostly ethnic Norwegian descent is now a comp ?

Hey, sometimes in rural areas you have to go with what you've got

 

[IlliniApp]

Maybe free-market capitalism, as it has evolved in the U.S., has a shelf life.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

Human nature is always the weak link.

This is why socialism/communism always fails. It is constructed on a foundation that relies on some idealistic virtue of its leaders and participants. It will never work because saints are never in charge and most members of a society are not saints. If the rare virtuous unicorn leader does appear...it's only temporary until the less virtuous take power back.

How many of you have actually read "The Federalist Papers"? It's a collection of arguments and analyses of different systems of government and economics. Foundational for actually understanding how our Constitution was developed and accounts for the weaknesses and motivations of human nature. It rejects utopian/fantasy-land idealism and embraces the truth of the human condition. The Founders did their homework and due diligence before drafting that document. Most modern debate on these topics is more like listening to 4yr-olds fight over a toy.

 

[alebrewer]

Alebrewer, I didn't know you were MAGA!! Next she'll be calling you alt-right or some other foolishness.

Pretty sure she doesn't know what MAGA is...

 

[Mark K]

Bottom line is that capitalism will struggle to survive in a democracy. Eventually (close to today's date) the parasites/takers will outnumber the workers/makers and then they'll vote Dim (socialist) for more welfare and "free" programs and take all they can from those that have worked and continue to work for a living.

Like Margaret Thatcher said..."Eventually you'll run out of other people's money".

 

[Surf Cat]

Bottom line is that capitalism will struggle to survive in a democracy. Eventually (close to today's date) the parasites/takers will outnumber the workers/makers and then they'll vote Dim (socialist) for more welfare and "free" programs and take all they can from those that have worked and continue to work for a living.

Like Margaret Thatcher said..."Eventually you'll run out of other people's money".

Capitalism is great at making the economic pie bigger, but it does not guarantee everyone gets a fair slice....

This great country gives the opportunity for anyone to start businesses, innovate, or choose a career to build wealth. These major corporations who've made it big, don't want to share the wealth with their employees who helped them make their fortune. Plus, they hide their profits in other countries and tax loopholes so as not to pay taxes to the very country that gave them opportunity in the first place..... couple this with Reagan significantly lowering the tax rate for the wealthy which started this mess. The income and wealth gaps are wider than ever.

Look at the very industry we're in. Do you think it's fair that mortgage lenders whose net worths are in the billions, don't have to pay the service fee for AMC's wherea state license appraiser is required? Is it fair that the appraiser has to pay the AMC's fees for the lenders? I don't think so.... but they have the lobbying money and we don't.

So now, the government has to step in however, they're being bribed by the very corporations via lobbying to keep the status quo. Thus, the government's decisions are clouded.

I don't want to go full on socialism and I'm definitely not a communist.... but the system as it stands right now is good for the few and not the many.

 

[alebrewer]

Maybe free-market capitalism, as it has evolved in the U.S., has a shelf life.

We haven't had free market capitalism for some time now (if ever). I know you know that, though. When you combine market manipulation by the plutarchs with the massive amount of public welfare we have (much of which is fraud), doesn't look much like capitalism any more.

 

[alebrewer]

Capitalism is great at making the economic pie bigger, but it does not guarantee everyone gets a fair slice....

This great country gives the opportunity for anyone to start businesses, innovate, or choose a career to build wealth. These major corporations who've made it big, don't want to share the wealth with their employees who helped them make their fortune. Plus, they hide their profits in other countries and tax loopholes so as not to pay taxes to the very country that gave them opportunity in the first place..... couple this with Reagan significantly lowering the tax rate for the wealthy which started this mess. The income and wealth gaps are wider than ever.

Look at the very industry we're in. Do you think it's fair that mortgage lenders whose net worths are in the billions, don't have to pay the service fee for AMC's wherea state license appraiser is required? Is it fair that the appraiser has to pay the AMC's fees for the lenders? I don't think so.... but they have the lobbying money and we don't.

So now, the government has to step in however, they're being bribed by the very corporations via lobbying to keep the status quo. Thus, the government's decisions are clouded.

I don't want to go full on socialism and I'm definitely not a communist.... but the system as it stands right now is good for the few and not the many.

Neither of those other two systems you mentioned would succeed any better. The reason capitalism works is also the reason capitalist economies decline over time - greed.

 

[Mark K]

Capitalism is great at making the economic pie bigger, but it does not guarantee everyone gets a fair slice....

Define "fair slice".

This great country gives the opportunity for anyone to start businesses, innovate, or choose a career to build wealth.

And those people should be rewarded to a much larger degree than those that don't.

These major corporations who've made it big, don't want to share the wealth with their employees who helped them make their fortune.

Employees are paid a fair wage or else they move on to another position that rewards them according to their skills/abilities. Shareholders that provided the capital are rewarded with the growth of the company.

...couple this with Reagan significantly lowering the tax rate for the wealthy which started this mess. The income and wealth gaps are wider than ever.

And almost 50% of the US population pay no Federal taxes. You're right, that's not fair.

Look at the very industry we're in.

This industry/business we're in was ripe for the plucking; it's amazing that it lasted as long as it did. Residential appraising has gone the way of the shade tree mechanic, the TV repair man, and the blacksmith. It's not been that long ago that the local bank's loan committee would get in a car, drive past the properties they were considering for a loan, go to lunch and make the lending decision. Appraisers came into the picture mostly with the advent of the F/F programs. Now F/F has effectively decided that we're not needed.

I don't want to go full on socialism and I'm definitely not a communist.... but the system as it stands right now is good for the few and not the many.

The 'middle class' in this country has existed for a short time, mostly after WWII with all of the construction and factory work. The factories left the country when the unions got too greedy. Even the socialist and commie countries have their upper class and everyone else. The US is headed back in that direction.

The people that will do well are the ones that will continue to start companies, get good at a trade, and/or get college degrees that are worthwhile, have value to the market, not some feel-good degree. The problem today is too many social welfare nets that have resulted in too many people that are stupid and are proud of it and believe that they should be subsidized for their lack of education or their lack of a work ethic. Some of them believe that being on call for an organization subsidized by George Soros and getting paid to carry signs and protest is a perfectly legitimate profession.

 

[George Hatch]

Our golden era occurred as a direct result of most of our industrialized competitors fighting active world wars on their own soil. We won the primacy in the global export market primarily because they defaulted and didn't show up because they were too busy trying to rebuild.

Our (arguably) unearned export dominance started to erode as our competition came back online - funded by our financing. The moral virtues of our political system had less to do with our rise than the lack of competition. When times were good (for us) even a bad plan worked. Even the common workers benefitted, albeit at the expense of their competition in the war-torn nations.

It is within this context that people might come to consider some of the reasoning why our foreign policy has been oriented - in part - to engage with our opposition on their soil and not ours'.