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Housing Bubble Bursting?

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Randolph Kinney said:
The problem here with the MLS system, the Realtors are "cooking" the statistics to keep the DOM artificially low. They cancel, they withdraw and even let expire a listing that over laps the new listing to confuse the real marketing time. You really have to be determined after selecting comparables to research them thoroughly to see what really happened.

I don't know that that is "cooking the data" so much as just the normal course of events. A listing will be withdrawn and then relisted anytime the owner has a problem that is eventually resolved. Likewise, if a listing expires, it is relisted and the true DOM is the DOM shown, plus the days for the expired listing.

This works pretty much the same as the typical appreciation trick. If you continually check all your comps for past sales and listings, you'll begin to get a pretty good idea of what is right. Of course, that does not take into account that a lot of properties are tried FSBO before being listed. However, I don't consider that to be too much of a problem; my opinion of market value includes an assumption that the property will by actively marketed - just putting a for sale by owner sign up does not meet that criteria in most cases.
 
"Okay Mike. December 2001, I was laid off from my semiconductor engineering job here in So-Cal, making $85,000 a year. Today, I am a state licensed real estate appraiser and I (we) don't make anywhere near that number. And that is with my wife working now."

In the early '90's I was lucky to make $40,000 a year as an apprentice

The 1st year my wife & started our appraisal business...we made $75,000 (98-99)

By the end we were hovering around six figures

Our first year away from appraising our income was 44% over our best year appraising

I was a workaholic
 
"The problem here with the MLS system, the Realtors are "cooking" the statistics to keep the DOM artificially low."

Do that in this region & you could receive a hefty fine.

Additionally, I doubt seriously it's a conspiracy to keep the DOM artificially low.

In days gone by...when an Agent would relist a property it wasn't for the sinister reason to make DOM's look artificially low. The Agent was simply hoping the property would be looked at by more people as it would now pop up under automatic searches again.

Reasonably priced properties are still selling in under 30 days here. If a person wants to test the upper end of a reasonable range...45-60 days might be expected. Competitively priced properties are still selling in a matter of days with multiple offers.

STILL...we have our Bubble Heads; I was showing a prospect a new home when his HIGH SCHOOL aged daughter says, "shouldn't we wait until after the housing bubble"? I couldn't help it...I laughed out load!

Another was an elderly couple from abroad whose son was going to help them purchase a home. During our second meeting...the gentleman says, "I think we're going to wait till prices come down." Two years later he emails me & says, "how come I'm not receiving listed properties in my email anymore?" Cause prices haven't come down they've appreciated significantly...just like I told you...and you've waited so long now...that you've priced yourself right out of the market (his parameters were still plugged into automatic search...there just wasn't anything being listed in that price range any longer).

95 Pages and STILL NO HOUSING BUBBLE!

-Mike
 
Steve Owen said:
These guys need a reality check. Time on market used to run around 90 days in this area. That was back in the early 90's. Since about the time of the stock bubble crash, time on market has been more like 120 to 180 days in this market.

It is another example of bubble thinking that these realtors believe something like two weeks should be typical. Time on market extending out to 90 days is not a sign the bubble is popping, it's a sign that these markets are coming back into equilibrium. What had been a seller's market in these locations is moving back toward balance. The question is whether it will move on through that and to a buyer's market.
But there are also other sings in the market.

Home Sellers Cut Prices as Once-Torrid U.S. Market Turns Chilly
June 28 (Bloomberg) -- Ko Ueno, a 36-year-old tourism executive moving to San Diego, hasn't found a buyer for his one- bedroom condominium in Cambridge, Massachusetts -- even after cutting the price three times since October and offering a $6,000 cash rebate.
``A year ago, this unit would have gone in a matter of days, but now we have to offer incentives and a brand-new kitchen,'' his broker, Brenda van der Merwe, says as she inspects the kitchen's freshly painted walls.
Ueno, whose apartment near Harvard University went on the market for $329,000 and is now listed at $299,000, is caught in the first U.S. housing decline since 1999. Gone are the bidding wars that drove prices to record highs in each of the past five years. Now buyers have the upper hand, and are waiting for sellers to drop their prices and throw in such extras as country club-memberships and reimbursement for moving costs.
Sales of existing U.S. homes fell in May to an annualized rate of 6.67 million as higher mortgage rates sapped demand, the National Association of Realtors said yesterday. With the Federal Reserve poised tomorrow to raise its benchmark rate a quarter- point to 5.25 percent, according to all but two of the 126 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News, things are likely to get worse before they get better.
``The housing market isn't just cooling, there is a decided chill in the air,'' says Chris Rupkey, senior financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in New York. ``Market power is shifting from sellers to buyers as unsold inventories continue to rise.''
`Skunked'
The Washington-based realtors group said the number of unsold homes rose to a record. The U.S. Northeast had the biggest sales drop, falling 4.2 percent to an annualized pace of 1.13 million, the trade group said. The region is losing an average of 247,000 residents a year, the biggest annual outflow in the U.S., the Census Bureau said in an April 20 report.
Sales in the Midwest declined 3.8 percent, the West was down 0.7 percent, and the South fell 0.4 percent.
Many sellers are finding they must cut their initial asking prices by 10 percent or more to entice buyers, according to brokers. Real-estate agents sound more like car dealers as they use phrases like ``cash back,'' ``buyer rebates'' and ``must sell.'' They speak of being ``skunked'' at open houses -- meaning, no one showed up, even after the sellers made ``price improvements.''
``I've learned to bring a good book with me,'' says Christopher Rotondo, 32, an agent with Watermark Realty, as he sits alone at an open house in Newport, Rhode Island. ``Last year, we'd typically get 20 to 30 people. You needed an assistant to direct traffic and hand out brochures. Now, more likely, it's three or four people, and sometimes you get skunked.''
Hot Tub and Skylights
The 1,470-square-foot townhouse near Goat Island has a new kitchen, a ``spa room'' with a hot tub and skylights, refinished pine floors and a new kitchen. It came on the market in February for $479,900, was reduced in March to $464,900, and again in May to its current asking price of $449,900. Three people came to the two-hour open house June 25, Rotondo says.
The Federal Reserve wanted to take what former Chairman Alan Greenspan called ``the froth'' out of the real estate market as a side campaign in its war to contain inflation. Policy makers have raised borrowing costs 16 times since June 2004, pushing mortgage rates to a four-year high in May.
The average U.S. rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage was 6.62 percent. Adjustable-mortgage rates have climbed by more than 2 percentage points to 5.7 percent, removing from the market most investors who plan to ``flip'' properties and first-time buyers who are stretching to qualify for a loan, says David Berson, chief economist at Washington-based Fannie Mae, the largest U.S. mortgage buyer.
Rushing Out of the Market
Investors who buy homes to resell at a profit are rushing out of the market, putting more pressure on prices, Berson says. Such investors bought a record 2.34 million homes last year, according to data from the realtors group. Excluding investments, home sales rose 0.9 percent to 5.99 million last year.
``Investors can put their money in any asset they want, and with returns slowing, it makes it more likely they will pull out of housing,'' Berson says.
Shelley Grandy, 41, says investors ``dumping'' their properties have stalled her efforts to sell her four-bedroom brick townhouse in Sterling, Virginia. Grandy, who has two children, says she is moving and plans to rent a home for a year or two in her new neighborhood.
Paint and Carpeting
Grandy reduced the price of her home to $435,000 this week, after listing it for $455,000 in February. She painted her unit and installed new carpeting to make it more appealing. In addition, she's offering $10,000 for ``closing cost help.''
``The flippers turned it into a buyers' market because they're now desperate to sell,'' Grandy says.
Higher mortgage rates have been a boon to the rental market, as people opt to lease rather than buy a home. U.S. apartment rents increased at the fastest pace in five years during the first quarter, to a record $952 a month from $907 a year earlier, according to the National Multi-Family Housing Council.
Grandy said she'll be able to rent an $800,000 home for about $2,800 a month, and plans to move before September so her two children, 5 and 8 years old, won't have to change schools mid-year.
As for her townhouse, ``this is pretty much my bottom price,'' Grandy said. ``I won't go any lower than this. I'll just hold it and rent it, like a lot of people are doing.''
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=amJynxoSEAco&refer=exclusive_to_bloomberg
 
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Likewise, if a listing expires, it is relisted and the true DOM is the DOM shown, plus the days for the expired listing.

On the MLS system here, you can define an area by zip code(s) or by map page, columns(s), row(s). For active listings, for example, you don't get a sum of DOM for past listings that expired plus active listings. All you get is the DOM for the current active listing population. You get the low, high, and average DOM, listing price, etc.

You have to go through manually and match up the properties that have previous listings that expired and sum that yourself.

What gets entered into the data bases when a property is sold is the data for that listing number. You don't get any data for the past listing numbers on that property. You have to extract that yourself by entering the address of the property. You don't get any data on concessions after the close of escrow unless the Realtor is kind enough to put that information in the remarks area. Very, very few do.

If you have the time to research multiple market areas, you can see that there is a minority population where there is a game being played. It is significant here. It does distort the true marketing time. The DOM is not real. What gets reported is not real.
 
98th fastest growing city is Lake City ..... MLS system is an abortion ....
 
"The DOM is not real. What gets reported is not real."

If you could only experience how that comes across to me.

The DOM is not real...but the invisible housing bubble is.

Boggles the mind.

I don't pretend to know what's going on across the country, however, I'm extremely skeptical about these kinds of comments.

Like I've said before, in this region an Agent can get fined for that kind of behavior, and there's no CONSPIRACY behind the DOM's.

DOM's are DOM's...trying to hide the fact DOM's are increasing doesn't help an Agent one iota.

To insinuate Realtors are conspiring to commit fraud regarding DOM's is ridiculous!

This country's got more conspiracy's than a dog's got fleas!

-Mike
 
This is a TICKER TAPE ..... thread ....

A ticker tape thread is one that just keeps going and going ........24/7 .....

.... Mike's agenda is clear ..... confuse, persuade, confound the masses .....

.... the wild heard of cattle roam the range only to be corraled by the

BARBED WIRE of Mike Simpson ......
 
Depressed - I've got a solution

Watch the movie "Zoolander" ........ my seratonin levels are way up right now ....

..... but, the empire is still falling unless E.T. can come down and alter our reference point .... or some God out there in the great big blue sky ... who can fix our rusty gears ......
 
Mike, you should see how you come across to people. You project your own inadequacies onto others. No one said the word conspiracy, except you.

The discussion is with Steve Owen about what is the real DOM. It is the current listing plus the expired listing DOM. You agree? (doesn't matter, most people know how to account for prior listings)

What gets reported in the statistics is the last listing number for that property. It is not the sum of prior listings. Therefore, the DOM is under reporting the real time on market for any property that has been listed multiple times. It is that simple.

Now for a discussion of denial - why is it you are so intent to deny data or statistics quoted from published sources? Why are you so infatuated with the word, "bubble"? I do notice that you post in other threads about "bubbles" and say something really intelligent like, "Unfortunately, there's an element here that resents anybody who doesn't believe or think like themselves." Would that be you again, Mike, projecting onto others your own shortcoming?
 
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