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Housing Bubble Bursting?

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One For Bobby Bucks

Bobby Bucks: "I’m beginning to find this thread dreadfully boring because there is nothing new other than the dates on articles…..copy and paste another one written by an obscure egghead, copy and paste, etc."

Beating Inflation: Since 2001, the average hourly earnings of workers in the private sector have increased 19%, a gain of 3.2% per year. Inflation over the same period is up 16%, an average increase of 2.8% per year.
 
mike neff said:
Little different scenario don't you think? Do houses have 10% daily swings? And with that level of liquidity?

The main reason it is foolish for appraisers of all people to bang the bubble drum is that the market and micro markets are soooooo local. How do feel when Joe H.O. quotes the paper saying prices have gone up zzz%. Really makes a lot of sense as to what HIS house has done.

This is the same argument appraisers are now making about the bubble.

Ridiculous, know your OWN market first.

Of course stock markets are more liquid. But if the fundamentals are there, you'll make money...just like RE. If the fundamentals are not there, you'll lose money....just like RE.

There are segments of the stock market that will move contrary to the overall trend...just like RE. But that fact that certain segments in stocks move contrary to the overall trend doesn't change the overall trend...just like RE.

Looking at the micro doesn't give a clear picture of the macro. We have both Mikes projecting the micro on the macro, and the other side just discussing the macro.
 
Bobby Bucks said:
It’s like watching a Gilligan’s Island rerun for the 7th time….you know how it’s going to end, but for some reason you still stay glued.

And maybe when the thread gets to 1000 the bubble bursts or Gilligan gets off the island.
 
Mike Simpson said:
Beating Inflation: Since 2001, the average hourly earnings of workers in the private sector have increased 19%, a gain of 3.2% per year. Inflation over the same period is up 16%, an average increase of 2.8% per year.
So are you implying or saying that the average hourly wage worker is better off today than 2001 because the average increase in wages are larger than the government statistics on inflation?

I have a problem with that. What working people buy and how they live is not very well reflected in the CPI.
 
"So are you implying or saying that the average hourly wage worker is better off today than 2001 because the average increase in wages are larger than the government statistics on inflation?"

Depends!

The region in which I reside has a booming job market (one of the best in the country), however, the wages--on average--are less than those earned pre-bursting of the tech bubble (at least that was the case a short time ago).

We cannot speak in generalities here--just as we can't regarding the housing bubble (or shouldn't)--not every region offers the same locational influences and amenities.

-Mike
 
You may be right Mike

Mike Simpson said:
If we go back and read David R. Stevenson's recent posts...I think we can begin to see AN HONEST glimpse of how the other side thinks. David's honest & truthful about how he views events.

I find this mindset rather dreary, but at least it's honest, and David's not alone to be sure.

If we think "everybody's lying"...if we feel uncomfortable being around people who're succeeding...if we think there's going to be a second coming of The Great Depression (as others have stated)...then our preconceived notions (an Appraiser's Cardinal Sin) are going to influence how we view this issue.

-Mike

I can live that opinion - in fact I here a lot ....... but, I truly do believe I am living in the times of an Empire Falling .... and that does make it more difficult to remain objective ...... but I try, and its the only way I know how to make a living ......anymore ....."biased appraisals, that is ....", but I live in a biased system .... a systemic system of corruption ....... thats why Moscow is now the most expenisve city to live in ....... people are drinking, drugging and stealing and whatever like never before ........ quantum mafia .....
 
Mike Simpson said:
"So are you implying or saying that the average hourly wage worker is better off today than 2001 because the average increase in wages are larger than the government statistics on inflation?"

Depends!

The region in which I reside has a booming job market (one of the best in the country), however, the wages--on average--are less than those earned pre-bursting of the tech bubble (at least that was the case a short time ago).

We cannot speak in generalities here--just as we can't regarding the housing bubble (or shouldn't)--not every region offers the same locational influences and amenities.

-Mike
Okay Mike. December 2001, I was laid off from my semiconductor engineering job here in So-Cal, making $85,000 a year. Today, I am a state licensed real estate appraiser and I (we) don't make anywhere near that number. And that is with my wife working now.

My guess is that there are many people in the electronics industry that either have been forced out of the industry and now have work paying less or have retired, making less. I know some of these personally as friends. Most of these people have sold their houses here and moved to other regions where it is cheaper.

Time will tell if this region can sustain today's home prices. I do not know what the people do here for a living to buy these homes. The ones I have appraised, both people work, no kids, aka DINKS - double income, no kids. Some have husband and wife with a good friend signed onto the mortgage living in the home. Some have parents that are helping buy the house for their kids.

I suspect the next economic down turn will expose the real weaknesses in the housing market and that is a generality.
 
Similar bucks to be made by computer geeks, even in MN. Mostly, what I see are programmers that can make internet commerce dance, anything to do with databases.

If you don't mind messing around with perl (CGI) scripts and other nasty stuff.

There are quite a few people with new jobs in geekdom that I have financed in the last couple years. Yes it had been rough after the wacky Y2K overkill, and I assume burn out is a problem. There are pretty good $$ new jobs I still see in tech.
 
Last edited:
Hot housing markets cooling

Hot housing markets cooling
Economic strength is keeping risk of price declines at bay

By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch
Last Update: 2:11 PM ET Jun 27, 2006

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Some of the nation's hottest housing markets are cooling, but the strength of the economy is balancing the risk of home-price declines, according to PMI Mortgage Insurance Co., which released its U.S. Market Risk Index on Tuesday.

The index uses data from the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the PMI affordability index to assign 50 of the country's largest metropolitan areas a score from one to 1,000.

A score of 100 means the area has a 10% chance its home prices will decline over the next two years. Higher scores mean a greater risk of home-price declines in the future. The New Orleans area was left out of the quarter's results due to the impact of Hurricane Katrina.

"This quarter's data signals that in many areas the expansion of the housing balloon has slowed substantially," said Mark Milner, chief risk officer of PMI Mortgage Insurance Co., in a statement. The company is a subsidiary of the PMI Group Inc.

Thirteen metropolitan areas had risk scores higher than 500 -- indicating a 50% or greater risk of home-price declines in the next two years. The San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, Calif., area had the highest risk, with a rating of 599. Newark, N.J., and Miami both had 32-point increases in risk over the quarter, landing at 459 and 359, respectively.

Thirty-four markets experienced decelerating home prices over the year, with Las Vegas leading the group. Appreciation slowed to 14.5% in Las Vegas, down from 30.1% a year ago.

"We'd reached a point where prices had gotten too far away from economic fundamentals," according to Milner. "A return to a more normalized appreciation climate is a natural outcome."

Appreciation may be slowing in a number of markets, but it is still positive in the country's largest metropolitan areas -- with half of them maintaining appreciation rates in the double digits.

Other findings from the report include the following:
  • Risk is concentrated along the coasts: Eight of the 13 highest risk areas are located in California and five are in the Northeast.
  • Six markets saw appreciation of more than 20% over the year. Phoenix saw appreciation of 31.1%; Orlando, Fla., saw appreciation of 27.7%; Fort Lauderdale, Fla., saw appreciation of 25.7% and Miami saw appreciation of 24.7%.
  • Four higher-risk markets saw appreciation drop into the single digits over the year. San Diego experienced 7.7% appreciation; Boston experienced 5.7% appreciation; Providence, R.I., experienced 9.5% appreciation, and Cambridge, Mass., experienced 5.2% appreciation.
  • Affordability decreased in more than half of the largest metropolitan areas during the first quarter of 2006. Affordability increased slightly in 19 markets due to slower price growth; five of the markets were in Texas and six were in the Midwest.
  • All but four of the largest metropolitan areas -- Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Warren, Mich. -- have seen recent employment growth. Las Vegas led the country in employment growth at 6.23% over the year, followed by Phoenix with 6.02%.
Below are the risk scores for the top 50 metropolitan areas, minus New Orleans:
  • San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, Calif., 599
  • Nassau-Suffolk, N.Y., 589
  • Boston-Quincy, Mass., 588
  • Santa Ana-Anaheim-Irvine, Calif., 588
  • Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Roseville, Calif., 585
  • Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif., 583
  • Oakland-Fremont-Hayward, Calif., 582
  • Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale, Calif., 575
  • Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-Mass., 568
  • San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, Calif., 560
  • San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, Calif., 559
  • Cambridge-Newton-Framingham, Mass., 537
  • Edison, N.J., 536
  • New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J., 498
  • Las Vegas-Paradise, Nev., 481
  • Newark-Union, N.J.-Penn., 459
  • Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach-Deerfield Beach, Fla., 441
  • Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, D.C.-VA.-Md.-W.VA., 431
  • Miami-Miami Beach-Kendall, Fla., 359
  • Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, Minn.-Wis., 355
  • Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, Mich., 337
  • Baltimore-Towson, Md., 307
  • Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Fla., 294
  • Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA.-N.C., 184
  • Warren-Troy-Farmington Hills, Mich., 179
  • Orlando-Kissimmee, Fla., 175
  • Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, Ariz., 165
  • Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, Ga., 153
  • Denver-Aurora, Colo., 130
  • Philadelphia, 127
  • Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, Ill., 112
  • St. Louis, Mo.-Ill., 109
  • Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, Wash., 108
  • Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, Ore.-Wash.,108
  • Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, Wis., 101
  • Kansas City, Mo.-Kan., 93
  • Austin-Round Rock, Texas, 87
  • Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, N.C.-S.C., 83
  • Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, Texas, 80
  • Dallas-Plano-Irving, Texas, 71
  • Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro, Tenn., 69
  • Fort Worth-Arlington, Texas, 68
  • Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, Ohio, 65
  • Columbus, Ohio, 65
  • San Antonio, 64
  • Cincinnati-Middletown, Ohio-Ky.-Ind., 61
  • Memphis, Tenn.-Miss.-Ark., 58
  • Indianapolis-Carmel, Ind., 57
  • Pittsburgh, 57
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rogerwatland said:
Similar bucks to be made by computer geeks, even in MN. Mostly, what I see are programmers that can make internet commerce dance, anything to do with databases.

If you don't mind messing around with perl (CGI) scripts and other nasty stuff.

There are quite a few people with new jobs in geekdom that I have financed in the last couple years. Yes it had been rough after the wacky Y2K overkill, and I assume burn out is a problem. There are pretty good $$ new jobs I still see in tech.
Lots of those programming jobs are being outsourced to India. In fact, latest news flash:

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones) -- Nortel Networks Inc. said Tuesday it will eliminate 1,100 jobs and end its defined-benefit pension plans for North American employees as part of a broader effort to boost profit margins.

Nortel said it would cut 1,900 jobs from its global workforce of roughly 35, 000. But at the same time, the company will create 800 positions in two new operations centers in Mexico and Turkey to provide engineering, technical support and other services.
Telcom industry and others technical jobs are going overseas. That is the way it has been. Programmers can contract with small businesses to setup web pages on a per job basis but it is not full time. Programming does not have to be local. Look at Microsoft.

Manufacturing is where the big bucks use to be in this country. That's no longer true.
 
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