Hybrid

[gregb]

Offer from Amrock-

I am contacting you today to gauge your interest in 2 new products we are planning to offer our clients in approximately August of this year.



Our clients are collection product that would help streamline the lending process for low-risk loans. Below are the details, PLEASE REPLY WHETHER INTERESTED OR NOT SO WE CAN TALLY THE NUMBER OF APPRAISERS INVOLVED, THANK YOU!

What’s involved –

Product 1: A data collection: The first step of the process is Data Collection. This step is to capture the subject property characteristics, amenities, the site and any external influences. This is done using an Developed App. The Data Collection takes roughly the same amount of time as a typical inspection (30-45 minutes; at first may take a little longer until you get used to the program), but is complete before you leave the subject property.

* Fee is $60 and 2 day turn time

Product 2: a modified 1004 is completed by using the photos and info from the data collection. This is completed on a modified 1004 form, the form is the same; the only difference is the modified certification page.

• You will not have the drive time and save on fuel costs.
• You will not be putting miles on your vehicle.
• You will not have to drive by the comparable sales.
• You will not have to complete the 1004MC form.
• You will not have to enter the subject property characteristics. A sketch and photographs will be provided. These items will be provided at the time the assignment is ordered and automatically import into the amended 1004 product.

* Fee is $100 and 2 day turn time

 

[J Grant]

To clarify: ( comments below are general for res lending work, and may not apply to every situation or exception )

A "desktop" Nobody inspects the property it is an appraisal not based in any part of on inspection and not a substitute for 1004 or 2055 form appraisals it's own product and use. o )

Hybrids" : seems to cover a number of products but has at minimum an exterior inspection ( by somebody), with appraiser typically doing the desktop portion only. It's own product line and use, growing in popularity with lenders to replace evaluations or BPO's or stand alone AVM's. Not replacements for 2055 or 1004 origination work

"Bifurcated "-The pilot program now being tested by Fannie where a non appraiser will do an interior inspection for 1004 URAR and will replace some 1004 /URAR work.

Feel free to correct me on any of it..would help if people use the right term and it seems teh terms are sometimes used interchangeably , as if a desktop will replace 1004 work (not true only a bifurcated will, but that bifurcated also may be referred to as a hybrid...complicating things at least for discussion purposes , thus comments in posts can be mis applied or misinterpreted)

 

[hastalavista]

.

I think it’s more than that....reading all the between the lines harping regarding the client imposed SOW release from liability BS because of the new certifications supposedly releasing us from liability - what’s really being said is Appraisers shouldn’t give a damm ethically.

(my bold)
Since you quoted me...
What "is" really said is what I really said. Your imprinting a less than ethical motivation on to what I said is not supported by what I said and by what I've consistently said on these.
Furthermore, that quote was in the context of a discussion (one of many in this thread) about appraisers' liability in regard to these products. One member said he saw nothing but significant liability. I countered with "give me an example" and framed the example in terms that specifically related to the hybrid.
Even Peter C. said that he had no examples (based on the way I worded the question) but opined that that the SOW wouldn't necessarily stop a borrower from suing anyway; I'll take his opinion as gospel in these matters; and, he is right. SOWs, no matter how ironclad they are written, do not stop borrowers from suing us anyway.

That none of this - the potentially predestined repurposing of hybrids (new mtg loan origination) should NOT concern us because fingers can be pointed elsewhere.
Message. Don’t worry or fret about it... just do them

Again, either a direct misrepresentation of what I said (very common these days in this forum) or a misunderstanding of what was said in the context of the discussion you quoted. I'd like to think it was the later.

This...coming from people who in all probability wont themselves be doing them.

This intended dig always makes me smile because it implies I'm telling people what to do from a position of haughtiness; in effect, do what I say, not what I do.

Just to recap what I've said over and over and over....
1. I believe that there are mortgage-related transactions where a hybrid appraisal makes sense.
2. I believe there should be limits on their use: the riskier the loan, the more a hybrid does not make any sense.
3. I believe that a hybrid is better than an AVM or BPO.
4. I would prefer appraisers to get this business than non-appraisers.
5. I argue that the acceptability of the assignment is two fold: the SOW and the appraiser's own personal standard.
6. I would consider taking these assignments with little hesitation as long as I agreed with the SOW and the intended use.
7. If the assignment passed #6 threshold, then the final determination for me would be the fee; if they accepted my fee, I'd do them. If they didn't, I won't.
8. I encourage all appraisers to bid any jobs, and these specifically, at a level that appropriately compensates them for the work they do and the risk they perceive (which may be much higher than what I perceive).
9. I've consistently said that if any appraiser doesn't like these for any reason, they should simply decline the assignment.
10. I've said if enough appraisers decline these assignments for any or a combination of reasons (disagree with the SOW; don't believe the assignment results can be credible with someone else performing an inspection; don't think it is appropriate for the specific intended use or for any mortgage-related intended use); find the fee insufficient; etc.) these products will die as far as an appraisal product is concerned.
11. I've argued that if the appraiser is the inspector, they are still required to follow the USPAP if they were engaged to perform the assignment because they were an appraiser (and I confirmed it with my state regulator and recommended others do the same); so I've argued that this component of the assignment should have a commensurate fee given the expectations and requirements. Indeed, I said that if a company were offing (actually, I think the one example priced it lower than) the typical fee they might pay for a 1004D re-inspection, I wouldn't accept it because there is more work and liability involved in an appraiser doing the inspection.

There's my position summed up in 11 points.
Please tell me where any of it is unethical?
Also, please tell me where I'm telling anyone else to do something that I wouldn't do?

 

[J Grant]

https://www.housingwire.com/article...n-for-stealing-trade-secrets-from-housecanary

 

[Evincere]

(my bold)
Since you quoted me...
?

NP. I edited and removed your quotes.

 

[George Hatch]

Offer from Amrock-

Product 1: A data collection: The first step of the process is Data Collection. This step is to capture the subject property characteristics, amenities, the site and any external influences. This is done using an Developed App. The Data Collection takes roughly the same amount of time as a typical inspection (30-45 minutes; at first may take a little longer until you get used to the program), but is complete before you leave the subject property.

* Fee is $60 and 2 day turn time

Product 2: a modified 1004 is completed by using the photos and info from the data collection. This is completed on a modified 1004 form, the form is the same;..
* Fee is $100 and 2 day turn time

They've got the valuation of these two functions exactly wrong. If the net result is a completed 1004 then the semi-skilled inspection function is being paid at $50/hr after expenses and the skilled appraisal function is being paid at $25/hr. And maybe less.

Everyone knows how long it takes to research, analyze and write a 1004 with all the details.

 

[timd354]

They've got the valuation of these two functions exactly wrong. If the net result is a completed 1004 then the semi-skilled inspection function is being paid at $50/hr after expenses and the skilled appraisal function is being paid at $25/hr. And maybe less.

Everyone knows how long it takes to research, analyze and write a 1004 with all the details.

The market will ultimately determine what fees will be need to be paid to the appraisers who do the home inspection portion and the appraisers who complete the report portion although agree that the fees offered seem to be much more favorable for the inspection portion than the report completion portion. I certainly would not do the report portion for a $100 fee, but perhaps would consider (depending on how busy I was) doing the inspection portion if I could aggregate 8 or 9 inspections in a single day in a relatively small area, which would pay $480-$540, minus car expenses, which is not too bad for what is very easy work. (However, it probably is not possible to aggregate that many inspections in a relatively small area)

 

[Carnivore]

The market will ultimately determine what fees will be need to be paid to the appraisers who do the home inspection portion and the appraisers who complete the report portion although agree that the fees offered seem to be much more favorable for the inspection portion than the report completion portion. I certainly would not do the report portion for a $100 fee, but perhaps would consider doing the inspection portion if I could aggregate 8 or 9 inspections in a single day in a relatively small area, which would pay $480-$540, minus car expenses, which is not too bad for what is very easy work. (However, it probably is not possible to aggregate that many inspections in a relatively small area)

The bold "Home Inspection" is a term we better not use in North Carolina. Home Inspections can only be performed by NC Licensed Home Inspector UNLESS they are not Paid for the service. Then anybody can do all the Home Inspections they want. Its all about being paid! The exceptions are Licensed RE Appraisers and Licensed RE Brokers.

https://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering_and_Codes/HILB.aspx

The North Carolina Home Inspector Licensure Board (NCHILB) is chartered to safeguard the public health, safety, and welfare - protect the public from being harmed by unqualified persons by regulating the use of the title "Licensed Home Inspector" and by providing for the licensure and regulation of those who perform home inspections for compensation.

http://www.homeinspector.org/StateLicensingRequirements/State/North-Carolina

§ 143-151.62. Persons and practices not affected. This Article does not apply to any of the following: (1) A person who is employed as a code enforcement official by the State or a political subdivision of the State and is certified pursuant to Article 9C of Chapter 143 of the General Statutes, when acting within the scope of that employment. (2) A plumbing or heating contractor who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 2 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (3) An electrical contractor who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 4 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (4) A real estate broker or a real estate sales representative who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 1 of Chapter 93A of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (5) A structural pest control licensee licensed under the provisions of Article 4C of Chapter 106 of the General Statutes, an employee of the licensee, or a certified applicator licensed under the provisions of Article 4C of Chapter 106 of the General Statutes who does not claim to be a home inspector, while performing structural pest control activities pursuant to that Article.

 

[chad hampton]

Just about every phase of these "hybrids" appear to violate different NC laws and board rules. I wouldn't do them in this state. There will have to be law changes before I'd ever sign my name to one.

But I'd more likely leave the profession. Hard to make a real living $100 at a time. Too many other ways to make 6 figures these days than to sit at a desk and pump these POS out the door all day long.

Wait till the public finds out it wasn't even an appraiser they let into their house

 

[timd354]

The bold "Home Inspection" is a term we better not use in North Carolina. Home Inspections can only be performed by NC Licensed Home Inspector UNLESS they are not Paid for the service. Then anybody can do all the Home Inspections they want. Its all about being paid! The exceptions are Licensed RE Appraisers and Licensed RE Brokers.

https://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering_and_Codes/HILB.aspx

The North Carolina Home Inspector Licensure Board (NCHILB) is chartered to safeguard the public health, safety, and welfare - protect the public from being harmed by unqualified persons by regulating the use of the title "Licensed Home Inspector" and by providing for the licensure and regulation of those who perform home inspections for compensation.

http://www.homeinspector.org/StateLicensingRequirements/State/North-Carolina

§ 143-151.62. Persons and practices not affected. This Article does not apply to any of the following: (1) A person who is employed as a code enforcement official by the State or a political subdivision of the State and is certified pursuant to Article 9C of Chapter 143 of the General Statutes, when acting within the scope of that employment. (2) A plumbing or heating contractor who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 2 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (3) An electrical contractor who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 4 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (4) A real estate broker or a real estate sales representative who does not claim to be a home inspector and is licensed under Article 1 of Chapter 93A of the General Statutes, when acting pursuant to that Article. (5) A structural pest control licensee licensed under the provisions of Article 4C of Chapter 106 of the General Statutes, an employee of the licensee, or a certified applicator licensed under the provisions of Article 4C of Chapter 106 of the General Statutes who does not claim to be a home inspector, while performing structural pest control activities pursuant to that Article.

You need to take a closer look at the applicable regulations for home inspections in NC.

After reading the applicable regs., it is extremely doubtful that an appraisal/valuation inspection of the subject property would meet the definition of home inspection as defined in the NC Home Inspector's licensing regulations, otherwise appraiser would be required to also be licensed as home inspectors when they do their appraisal inspections (which is clearly not the case). In any case, so long as an appraiser doing the valuation inspection does not claim to be a home inspector, then they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the Home Inspector Licensing Board (see the highlighted portions in red below):

§ 143-151.45. Definitions.
The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) [Repealed by Session Law 2009-509, s.3.3, effective October 1, 2013]
(2) Board. – The North Carolina Home Inspector Licensure Board.
(3) Compensation. – A fee or anything else of value.
(4) Home inspection. – A written evaluation of two or more of the following components of a residential building: heating system, cooling system, plumbing system, electrical system, structural components, foundation, roof, masonry structure, exterior and interior components, or any other related residential housing component.
(5) Home inspector. – An individual who engages in the business of performing home inspections for compensation.
(6) Residential building. – A structure intended to be, or that is in fact, used as a residence by one or more individuals.

SECTION .1200 - HOME INSPECTOR DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS
.1202 COMPLAINTS
(a) Anyone who believes that a licensee is or has been engaged in any conduct set out in GS 143-151.56(a) may file a written complaint against that licensee.
(b) A Complaint Memo containing instructions for filing the complaint is available through the NC Home Inspector Licensure Board website at www.nchilb.com or by contacting the NC Home Inspector Licensure Board.
(c) The complaint shall identify the licensee and describe the conduct complained of as set forth in G.S. 143-151.56(a).
(d) A copy of the contract agreement, the inspection report, and any reports made by other consultants shall be included with the complaint.
(e) The complaint shall be in writing, signed by the complainant, and dated. The complaint shall include the complainant's mailing address and a daytime phone number at which the complainant may be reached. The street address of the structure must be included if the complaint pertains to an inspection of a structure.
(f) Supporting information shall be included to justify the complaint. Supporting information shall refer to violations of the Board’s rules or of the General Statutes. If the complaint involves items included in the Standards of Practice that the licensee did not observe, a list of those items may be submitted with the complaint. This information may be provided by the complainant, an architect, professional engineer, licensed contractor, another licensed home inspector, or other person with knowledge of the Standards of Practice.
(g) The Board shall not consider services that are under the jurisdiction of other regulatory agencies or licensing boards, such as termite inspections; appraisals; or services rendered by licensed architects, engineers, or general contractors, unless the persons rendering those services claim to be home inspectors.
(h) The Board has no jurisdiction over persons who make specialized inspections as part of their repair or maintenance businesses, such as roofing repair contractors, chimney sweeps, duct cleaning, and interior environment specialists.
(i) The Board members or the Board staff may initiate an investigation without a written complaint when there is cause to believe that a licensee is or has been engaged in any conduct set out in G.S. 143-151.56(a).

So much for the theory that an appraiser doing the inspection portion of a hybrid appraisal needs a home inspector license in the state of North Carolina.