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I'm not surprised..

These are not GSE orders that you bid on, it is not the same as the AMC presence wrt impact on fees and bidding that exists in GSE orders..

WRT your verbiage about if a company's sole business is to engage and manage appraisals( an AMC), it would be inevitable for them to control costs-that is not the issue, the issue is these AMCs do not charge their customers ( the lenders or banks ) for their service, as other business do.. The AMC gets compensated from a split out of what the appraiser ( who they call a vendor) is covered by the borrower. Thus, the AMC fee bidding is not about "controlling costs ", it is about gouging the fee as much as possible because that is the way they stay in business since, due to the govt perk of the HUD blended appraisal fee, they are allowed to legally siphon money from the vendor and not charge their bank customer.

Give me examples of other businesses that operate that way. I can't think of any. I want free lawn service and free housecleaning service or free accounting service that a middleman provides because they dock their worker's pay and therefore do not charge me, the customer. I have not seen this offer from any business or professional. Only appraisers have to subsidize a third party because of the bundled appraisal fee, which the AMC system exploited to create a thriving industry. Prior to the HVCC, there were AMCs, but they mainly did title work, and if they also managed appraisals, their cut was low, around 10% or so - those very same AMC companies, post-HVCC, increased their fee split to 40-60% and other entrepreneurs, seeing the goldmine opportunity, jumped in to form AMC;s and grab as much business as they could. .

Name one business that is oriented and operated to serve the interests of the vendor and not the customer. You can't.

That's because the lenders' usage of appraisals is all about them. It's not all about you or me. It never has been. The only reason the fee appraisal business came into being the thing starting in the 1970s was due to the lenders outsourcing that function instead of carrying it in house. We have essentially been living off the scraps they discarded from their process when they outsourced our function as well as the loan origination function. Instead of complaining about the lenders leaving fewer scraps for the fee appraisers to scavenge we should consider ourselves lucky that we even got this far.

I have come to accept the fact that at some point and WRT mortgage lending assignments I will most likely be replaced by an AI-enabled alternative that is being operated out of a concrete tilt-up located in a rural town in Nebraska or the Philippines. I think most appraisers should give that possibility as much consideration as I have.

In parallel, if I were operating an AMC right now then I would be figuring out what I'm going to do when the lenders choose AI-Karen to replace the AMC function. Because there's already nothing THEY do that can't be operated from a concrete tilt-up in Nebraska or the Philippines.
 
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Name one business that is oriented and operated to serve the interests of the vendor and not the customer. You can't.

That's because the lenders' usage of appraisals is all about them. It's not all about you or me. It never has been. Instead of complaining about the lenders leaving fewer scraps for the fee appraisers to scavenge we should consider ourselves lucky that we even got this far.

I have come to accept the fact that at some point and WRT mortgage lending assignments I will most likely be replaced by an AI-enabled alternative that is being operated out of a concrete tilt-up located in Nebraska or the Philippines. I think most appraisers should give that possibility as much consideration as I have.

It is not about a business being oriented toward the vendor and not the customer.

I asked ( as a rhetorical question) what businesses charge their customers NOTHING for their service or product, and instead get their profit from a govt decree of a fee or $ split from a vendor?
Name a business or service professional who does that - and I will sign up today for their free to-me accountant and legal service and then for free lawn care and free auto repair service after that.

IDK if in the future, GSE lending assignments will be done by an AI alternative - my experience with AI is it is a lot dumber than the tech folks want you to believe since they are the ones who profit from it. . However, if that happens in the future, so be it - this is about the AMC system that exists now.
 
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I guess there will always be people out there that blame the small vendors instead of blaming Walmart for their destruction. The small minded way of thinking might work with a level playing field, but in a heavy regulated, manipulated market, you have to go beyond that
 
you too, been reading our idiocy for years, will put you on ignore now -
Fine with me. Just shows you can dish it out but you can't take it. As far as you reading my idiocy. It is obvious that you have a comprehension problem.
 
Fine with me. Just shows you can dish it out but you can't take it. As far as you reading my idiocy. It is obvious that you have a comprehension problem.
Agree on the "dish out but not take it"....They put me on ignore, guess I still am, because I asked too hard of questions to properly answer.......
 
It is not about a business being oriented toward the vendor and not the customer.

I asked ( rhetorical question) what businesses charge their customers NOTHING for their service or product, and instead get their profit from a govt decree of a fee or $ split from a vendor?
Name a business or service professional who does that - and I will sign up today for their free to-me accountant and legal service and then for free lawn care and free auto repair service after that.

IDK if in the future, GSE lending assignments will be done by an AI alternative - my experience with AI is it is a lot dumber than the tech folks want you to believe since they are the ones who profit from it. . However, if that happens in the future, so be it - this is about the AMC system that exists now.
Kewl speech. Make it again. Meanwhile and IRL, the lenders' usage of appraisals is entirely about their own interests How to get "enough" for less. How to get the nominally acceptable workproduct with the least amount of hassle. For free-to-them or as close to free as is available to them.

Nothing else you're talking about is even important enough to them to enter into their considerations. Appraisers don't matter to them.
 
I guess there will always be people out there that blame the small vendors instead of blaming Walmart for their destruction.
How can you blame Wal-Mart for doing what they do? If the consumers didn't frequent the place(s), the mom & pop's wouldn't have disappeared.
 
I guess there will always be people out there that blame the small vendors instead of blaming Walmart for their destruction. The small minded way of thinking might work with a level playing field, but in a heavy regulated, manipulated market, you have to go beyond that
Stop crying. The only aspect (fee) appraisers get blamed for is how they acted with trainees during the last runup which resulted in the gross oversupply of appraisers. A big mistake that almost no appraisers repeated this time around. (which demonstrates that the appraisers recognize their previous mistake for what it was and how it has affected them since). If the residential appraisers hadn't chased the short dollar the AMCs would never have had the leverage it takes to pit the appraisers against each other they way they did. And continue to do when the demand is insufficient to engage the supply.

Why are fees different by location? It isn't because of the AMCs - they operate everywhere. The variable is the ratio between supply and demand.

The technology which has enabled the market for services to integrate would have continued to advance, of course. So blast bids would have eventually happened no matter what. But I never see any of you attribute to the internet and e-commerce the effects on this business which they have wrought on their own. It's as if some of you think that if AMCs didn't exist then you could still generate business by blasting unsolicited faxes all over town and waiting for your answering machine to take the call.

As for regulation, you might want to lower the base in your voice when you complain about the effects of regulation on your business interests. And refrain from being such an ingrate.

That's because if it wasn't for the heavy hand of govt meddling in the mortgage lending business you wouldn't even be here. Me neither. The regulations you're talking about are what created the majority of demand for appraisal services in the mortgage lending business. And by extension are what created opportunities for self-employment that you have been using. Appraisals are an unfunded mandate that has been imposed on the lenders against their will. From the perspective of these lenders, appraisals amount to a tax on their operations and a drag on their productivity. There are good reasons for why the govt imposed that drag on their productivity but don't kid yourself - nobody would deal with appraisers if they didn't have to.
 
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instead of blaming Walmart for their destruction. The small minded way of thinking might work with a level playing field, but in a heavy regulated, manipulated market, you have to go beyond that
Walmart used to not do much in the way of lobbying. Then they were attacked by Sears, et al who sought to limit their growth by lobbying towns to limit store sizes, etc. Sears had a catalog store in towns that Wally moved into. It hurt Sears badly. Their stores, OTOH, were mostly clothing, their tires were junk, and selection limited. Craftsman tools were the best they had, and their tools were a pain to return when they didn't work. So, in revenge, Walmart taught Sears how to lobby and turned the tables on them. But Walmart's real success is due to 2 things - first, its transportation system and just in time servicing from their huge warehouses. Sears was still struggling in multi-story buildings and rented space. Secondly, Walmart went to the vendors and said, "build it where it is cheaper - China, Korea, India." They had a Buy America program in the 80s and it lost ground. They switched tactics. Now they also require vendors to have a presence near the Bentonville headquarters. That way they had access to the brass via usually a VP.

One last thing is they will play hardball and if that does not work, they adjust. When Pepsi tried to raise prices higher than Coke, they moved all the Pepsi products to a back shelve and Coke to the front. Pepsi lost sales big time...and dropped their prices. But when Panasonic refused to budge on TV prices, they dropped them and put Hitachi in its place. Six months later, their TV sales had slumped badly, and they ate humble pie and paid for the Panasonic at Panasonic prices. A side note. A friend of mine was an exclusive Panasonic repair center at the time and dedicated solely to Walmart returns. By cutting off Panasonic, Russ had to scramble and took on other Panasonic dealers as well as several other brands and started repairing microwaves, etc. When Walmart renewed the Panasonic contract, they demanded Russ (aka Ozark Electronics) be their dedicated repair shop. Panasonic stepped in and told Walmart no. They were THEIR repair center. That blew OE's business wide open, and they scrambled to expand and were repairing truckloads of returns from across the country - everything from washing machines to computers. Russ retired a few years ago a very comfortable life from a university student and part time carpenter and painter in the early 80s.

Yes, small businesses were hurt by Walmart. But some small businesses thrived when Walmart came to town. Gas stations, food places for one. Lowes, Home Depot, sports stores, and farm stores enjoy being near Walmart. And some learned from Walmart (Target for one) by introducing streamlined logistics that minimized trip miles and maximized the shipping efficiencies of the mega-warehouse. We cannot diss technology and those who master it. The small grocery store of the 50s are gone. The country stores are gone. The one-man garages are disappearing. Mom & pop cafes have a lot of difficulty competing with fast food. In my small town growing up, there were 5 grocery stores on one street - all within a block of each other. There were 6 gas stations. Today there are 3 C stores that sell gas. There is one grocery store and a Little Debbies company store with discount snacks, etc. And the town is triple the size it was in the 60s. That's not Walmart's fault.
 
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