Judge Rules Appraiser/Lender Owe no duty of care

[Surf Cat]

Thank you for confirming the hypocrisy in your reply when you thought you were replying to an appraiser.

Hypocrisy? I'm not double dealing or not being truthful.

You know very well from your research of your situation the pitfalls of the appraisal industry and that it's in great flux.

That doesn't negate the fact that you plowed forward on the purchase of a home without thoroughly vetting a major system for the dwelling. We've gone over and over the responsibilities of an appraiser in that situation. Even the courts saw it that way.

I swear, the realtor you used must have been a friend or family member. They forgot their fiduciary responsibility not to lead you into this situation you're in....I hope they're enjoying that fat 3% commission check they got.

 

[Mejappz]

Yet you literally replied to a colleague to colleague post on this situation

Thread 'CFPB Crackdown: Unfair Practices Hurting Consumers'

Jun 5, 2024

Bureau is currently investigating various fees associated with obtaining a loan, with the goal of identifying any that may be particularly burdensome or concerning for borrowers.


As we all know many AMCs are not paying Customary & Reasonable fee as required by TILA. They have consistently pushed down the pay of Appraisers while making undisclosed profit off consumers and prioritizing cheapest and fastest over quality and competency. The CFPB has been in communication with individuals behind the scenes and are concerned with what has been shown enough to include AMCs in their data...

• Mejappz
• Replies: 73
• Forum: General Appraisal Discussion

• 

“The reason I read the comments was to see how many of the AMC-related comments were from consumers.

As it turns out, that number is zero. So far. But it's early yet, so maybe the consumers will chime in. Or, perhaps a couple of you could LARP as consumers so as to astroturf the consumer-protection angle of this discussion. I guess we'll see.”

I can quote the hypocrisy from every single appraiser on this site.

Bayou-- You need to sue Class Valution. They are the ones pressuring appraisers to turn tn their reports in 24-hours.

 

[Mejappz]

I work 7 counties in the Texas panhandle, and none of them have that information on-line. I cover myself by making sure that I determine what I am responsible for, and don't misrepresent what I am capable of. Never had an issue like this come up in over 30 years, however I am paranoid about it.

Keep in mind though this is Class Valution who are having staff appraisers complete 100 reports in less than 90 days.

 

[Huds_Harm]

Its not even about throwing under the bus. She is just hoping she can trick a judge into her narrative which is filled with misrepresentations.

The way OP has acted though I have a feeling there is a much different version of the events than what we are being told.

Either way the appraiser provided an appraisal to the lender to assist in making a lending decision. The OP is trying to make the case that the lender should of denied her loan, its a weird claim to make. None of the experts assisting her with the due diligence to buy the property made her decide to withdraw from buying the property.

“I wonder if the lenders that use those AMCs are getting kickbacks, no other reason to use them except to facilitate fraud. One appraiser I saw did a duplex hybrid for either Clear or Class, borrower paid $250, appraiser paid $25. Appraiser licensed in 7 states. Anyone can see that can't be more than a rubberstamp using their license.”

Thread 'I'm not surprised..'

Aug 20, 2024

When we will as appraisers realize how bad we are being taken advantage of.

• bluechip
• Replies: 372
• Forum: General Appraisal Discussion

• 
• 
• 

 

[George Hatch]

Yet you literally replied to a colleague to colleague post on this situation

Thread 'CFPB Crackdown: Unfair Practices Hurting Consumers'

Jun 5, 2024

Bureau is currently investigating various fees associated with obtaining a loan, with the goal of identifying any that may be particularly burdensome or concerning for borrowers.


As we all know many AMCs are not paying Customary & Reasonable fee as required by TILA. They have consistently pushed down the pay of Appraisers while making undisclosed profit off consumers and prioritizing cheapest and fastest over quality and competency. The CFPB has been in communication with individuals behind the scenes and are concerned with what has been shown enough to include AMCs in their data...

• Mejappz
• Replies: 73
• Forum: General Appraisal Discussion

• 

“The reason I read the comments was to see how many of the AMC-related comments were from consumers.

As it turns out, that number is zero. So far. But it's early yet, so maybe the consumers will chime in. Or, perhaps a couple of you could LARP as consumers so as to astroturf the consumer-protection angle of this discussion. I guess we'll see.”

I can quote the hypocrisy from every single appraiser on this site.

And I'm contradicting myself how, exactly? I'm not. Consumers haven't been complaining about AMCs paying substandard fees to appraisers. Maybe someday the consumers will rise up, but in the meantime it's only appraisers who are posting those complaints.

As noted several times throughout this thread, if your system was in operable condition as of that date most appraisers wouldn't have noted the location of the septic install in their reports. Whether they were engaged/paid by an AMC or not.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If the consumer has no clue about fees, then why are we supposed to worry about the "public trust"? They obviously don't have neither any clue nor any trust issues. They are almost completely oblivious to us.

 

[Huds_Harm]

What I can't understand is your desire to continually poke this bear. You must really have some kind of deep seeded need to be right. You know the response you're going to get, yet you continue to post. I mean - really - what are you hoping to gain herein? Loss of time?

“It's the dynamic fee model that, it seems to me, causes appraisers the greatest angst. This is a model where the AMC is incentivized to find the 'lowest cost provider' as the AMC is then able to maximize their fee. Per esempio: AMC charges bank $600 for the appraisal. Under the 'flat fee' model, there is no incentive to use low fee appraisal providers as the AMC margin is fixed (at say $150). $450 goes to the appraiser, $150 goes to the AMC. Unlike the dynamic margin model - used by most of the bigger culprits - wherein if the AMC is able to find an appraiser willing to do the service for $200, they pocket $400. Both models are legal - one model is, however, immoral (IMO).”

“AMC's and lenders are only doing what they've been authorized to do - and they, just like anyone else, will push the envelope of legality in order to make more $. As long as what they're doing is legal though - as immoral as it may be - they're still legally free to do so. The ones you should be blaming are the ones who made the current model legal - or, at least, failed to make it illegal. And, at the end of the day, what is there to outlaw? You'd outlaw Appraiser X choosing to bid low so that they get more work than Appraiser Y? How do you outlaw that?“

Thread 'I'm not surprised..'

Aug 20, 2024

When we will as appraisers realize how bad we are being taken advantage of.

• bluechip
• Replies: 372
• Forum: General Appraisal Discussion

• 
• 
• 

 

[Huds_Harm]

Nothing more than a continuing and pathetic need for attention.

What baffles me is that some fairly intelligent appraisers keep feeding this obnoxious troll. She is not going away until everyone puts her on ignore or until everyone bows down and says "your right, you're the smartest one on the forum and everyone else is stupid." You know, a female version of Burt.

“Too often some appraisers have been the tail trying to wag the dog. They think they are the pit bull on the porch when, in reality, they're the yappy little Chihuahua in the window.”

Post in thread 'Appraisers Don't Understand'

Sep 10, 2024

I think it all leads to wherever the various participants in the market for services decide to go. Capitalism is funny that way.

We even have a truism for that

Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door​

The caveat for that being that it is usually the consumers who decide what they want to buy.

Too often some appraisers have been the tail trying to wag the dog. They think they are the pit bull on the porch when, in reality, they're the yappy little Chihuahua in the window.

• Mark K

• 

 

[Huds_Harm]

Thread 'Appraiser hired by lender owes a duty to buyer/borrower.'

May 1, 2009

AZ COURT OPINION:Appraiser hired by lender owes a duty to buyer/borrower.

This should open up a ton of litigation. What does everyone think??

The Arizona Court of Appeals has ruled, for the first time in an Arizona published opinion, that an appraiser hired by a lender owes a duty to the buyer/borrower in that transaction. In its decision issued April 30, 2009, the Court focused on the reality that the buyer would likely never hire a separate appraiser. For that and several other reasons, the appraiser owes a legal duty of care to the buyer/borrower.

In this case, the...

• Ryan Bailey
• Replies: 133
• Forum: General Appraisal Discussion

If consumers have a real stake in the diligence and care provided by appraisers, as indeed they should, then perhaps the threat of legal action will be a greater regulating influence than the do nothing approach adopted for years by the OTS, Treasury and etc.

As far as an expansion of liability, I'm not so sure. Would you argue that we are not liable for our errors, mistakes and misdeeds which harm our client and the users of our reports? This perceived liability has kept many a practictioner on the straight and narrow.

 

[George Hatch]

The borrower isn't a user of the appraisal. They are a customer of the lender and are *applying* to borrow money that doesn't belong to them. Maybe they qualify for the loan and maybe they don't. Maybe the property and its value fits the lender's criteria and maybe it doesn't.

The only relationship an appraiser has with a borrower is when the borrower or their broker opens the door and provides access. It's the same relationship an appraiser has with a lockbox on a vacant home and nobody is showing up to show the property.