Mother / Daughter

[Atlanta CG]

Some require the in-law unit to be a certain size smaller than the main. Check with the zoning.

 

[ucbruin]

Yup. It is all about the commission and the least amount of work. I have a hard time believing the appraiser didn't see the kitchen with a missing stove and label it a great room without being misleading. I bet the photos from that appraisal conveniently left out the telling signs.

If the stove is no longer in the room, why would labeling it a "great room" be misleading?
The lender would be happy to see, in the photo, the gaping "hole" from where the stove was removed.
From my limited experience, most lenders require that the photo include the "gap" to show the stove was removed.

 

[Don Clark]

I cannot fathom why lenders are so biased against a second kitchen area. The old timers often used to have two kitchens, often one stove was on a screened in porch for canning produce in summer when the kitchen otherwise became unbearably hot. I've appraised a number of older farms that actually had a separate building with stove and canning equipment. I know that dates me about 50 years, but who knows, it might come back. In my career we've went from galley kitchens (since no one cooked) to exotica in cookware as everyone tries to be a five star chef. I've seen my mother at canning time drenched in sweat because there wasn't any AC in the house and the breeze through the kitchen wasn't enough to keep cool even with a fan in the window. Once garden started canning included beans, making kraut, potatoes, tomatoes, jellies, apples, peaches, you name it. It got canned and stored.

Same here Terrell

A couple of years ago I appraised a home for an individual at the Ocean Front, valued then at $2-3 million. On the first floor was a media room that CNN would be proud of, and a small kitchen, dining room, a bathroom and a bedroom. This was a 3 story house. On the 3rd floor was a very large(Huge) formal dining room with a very large kitchen. The second floor had 4 bedrooms and 3 baths. The home was on the ocean front with a 100' set back from the ocean. It was definitely for entertaining. Oh! and this was the guy's "Beach House". His primary residence was just off the beltway of DC in Northern Virginia valued at over $8 million. He was a co-owner of a high tech company.

I recently did an appraisal in a very old area of one of our cities and the house was 120 years old, had previously been used as an old style duplex, converted to single family but still had a dining room and a 2nd kitchen on the 3rd floor. This was for a VA Refinance. I idicated that the property had been rented to a tenant who occupied the 3rd floor. However, the veteran argued that no one was renting that area now. I called for removal of the kitchen. The veteran appealed and VA allowed the 2nd kitchen to stay.

 

[Webbed Feet]

If the stove is no longer in the room, why would labeling it a "great room" be misleading?
The lender would be happy to see, in the photo, the gaping "hole" from where the stove was removed.
From my limited experience, most lenders require that the photo include the "gap" to show the stove was removed.

It would be misleading for the same reason that when an appraiser observed a bed setup in a living room of a one bedroom house, and therefore labeled the living room a bedroom on the appraisal report sketch and described the house as a two bedroom house, the state appraisal board declared it misleading after receiving the complaint I filed over it. The designed function of a room, or the floor plan, doesn't change because one moves the furniture, or one of the appliances.

 

[Noreen]

We own a SFR that has a mother-daughter layout so we're trying to get some clarification prior to listing our home for sale so we can bypass any unforeseen hiccups down the road. When you walk in through the main entrance you can go left to the mother / main part of the home, or you can walk down the hallway and make a right into the second part of the home. The main part of the home has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, kitchen, all the standard stuff. The daughter / other side of the home has a kitchen as well, bedroom, living room and another bathroom. It is legally a SFR on paper and not a 2-unit.

A little backstory, we refinanced our home in 2012 and our loan officer told us that the 2nd kitchen could create an issue with the appraisal. He instructed us to remove the stove, cap the gas line, move the stove to the garage, and cover it with a tarp. Everything went smooth and the appraiser listed the 2nd kitchen as a great room.

As of right now the stove is back in place and fully functional as a 2nd kitchen, we also put in a refrigerator. So my question is this: Will a 2nd kitchen with a functional stove create an conflict with FNMA or FHLMC guidelines when it comes time for the buyer to have the home appraised or have any negative impact in general?

Did you pull a permit to install the accessory kitchen?

 

[CANative]

It's not a two unit small income property (duplex). It's hardly even an SFR with an accessory dwelling unit as the spaces are not really separate. If it's a legal use then it's a legal use and the lender and the appraiser should just recognize that. If the appraiser starts giving you grief during the phone interview for scheduling or while at the site, tell him to leave and then choose a different lender who will chose a different appraiser.

Call your local planning department and ask the phone staff to tell you about the rules for this type of floor plan.

Good luck.

 

[PhysicalDepreciation]

If the stove is no longer in the room, why would labeling it a "great room" be misleading?
The lender would be happy to see, in the photo, the gaping "hole" from where the stove was removed.
From my limited experience, most lenders require that the photo include the "gap" to show the stove was removed.

I kind of agree.....I wouldn't call it a "great room" though. I would disclose all the info and call it either kitchenette or wet bar area.....then explain stove has been removed and capped. Typically when I run into this issue it is the at the request of the lender that either a permit be pulled for 2nd kitchen or that they simply remove and cap stove line.

 

[ucbruin]

I kind of agree.....I wouldn't call it a "great room" though. I would disclose all the info and call it either kitchenette or wet bar area.....then explain stove has been removed and capped. Typically when I run into this issue it is the at the request of the lender that either a permit be pulled for 2nd kitchen or that they simply remove and cap stove line.

My experience regarding a 2nd "kitchen" (typically located in the basement) seems to be the same yours.

 

[ucbruin]

It would be misleading for the same reason that when an appraiser observed a bed setup in a living room of a one bedroom house, and therefore labeled the living room a bedroom on the appraisal report sketch and described the house as a two bedroom house, the state appraisal board declared it misleading after receiving the complaint I filed over it. The designed function of a room, or the floor plan, doesn't change because one moves the furniture, or one of the appliances.

Post #14

I think that is a good question.
I know when I've researched in zoning and planning regulations the question, as a rule, the jurisdictions consider an accessory or secondary unit, one that can accommodate overnight occupancy, sanitary and food preparation needs.
I've always considered the sanitary and food preparation needs to mean a bathroom and kitchen (as do most of the jurisdictions where I work).
Sometimes, a "kitchen" is defined in detail (4-foot plus work surface area + sink and cooking area) and sometimes it isn't.
In San Francisco, they consider a "kitchen" one that has a stove: take out the stove, and it is no longer a kitchen (the hood can apparently stay).

https://appraisersforum.com/forums/...es-and-gross-living-area-access.191645/page-2

I'm no saying this is a correct response or a response for every city/state....
I posted because it works for my point of view that removing the stove and labeling the area something other than a kitchen would not be misleading....

 

[Deleted member 128537]

I once had a situation where the accessory unit was connected to the main home by a wall. It was for FHA and I simply said they should just make an entrance with a door so it wasn't a separate unit. Went through no problem. And I agree with this 2nd kitchen nonsense. I just did a 1.5 million dollar house that had 3 kitchens. They entertained at different places in the house and wanted the kitchens. What's the big deal. Some of these rules are just dumb.