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NCAB verses Tom Hildebrandt - The case of the clueless board
- Thread starter Tom Hildebrandt
- Start date
- Status
Tom Hildebrandt
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- General Public
- State
- North Carolina
Joan
Sure, but I have very little time available for writing as I am getting ready for a three month trip to Australia in May. If you want to write a story based on the news article and my posting on this forum, I will be happpy to take a look at it for accuracy of content.
Regards
Tom Hildebrandt GAA
Sure, but I have very little time available for writing as I am getting ready for a three month trip to Australia in May. If you want to write a story based on the news article and my posting on this forum, I will be happpy to take a look at it for accuracy of content.
Regards
Tom Hildebrandt GAA
Tom,
I am intersted in having you tell the story. I'll leave it up to you for delivery date. Just email me privately with a tme so I can put you on the calendar.
jtrice@appraisalbuzz.com
I am intersted in having you tell the story. I'll leave it up to you for delivery date. Just email me privately with a tme so I can put you on the calendar.
jtrice@appraisalbuzz.com
Lawrence Silverman
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Illinois
Steve
I know exactly who you are talking about. I knew he had testified on your behalf, as well as that he was now a target himself. I did not know he was the victim of vindictive prosecution. What a surprise in the the great state of Illinois that things like this go on with the current administration.
I know exactly who you are talking about. I knew he had testified on your behalf, as well as that he was now a target himself. I did not know he was the victim of vindictive prosecution. What a surprise in the the great state of Illinois that things like this go on with the current administration.
Tom Hildebrandt
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- General Public
- State
- North Carolina
Joan
As I suggested in my prior post, I am not really all that keen about personally writing a story centering around my case. The primary reason is that I have already invested a great amount of my time into this issue, and am looking forward to a three month vacation.
While my case is fun to read, I think the issue is a lot bigger.
I would be much more inclined in having a story which cuts to the core of what changes are needed in our enforcement system. The story can reference this thread and other threads and forums, but we need to get some momentum going to control rabid boards and ARRO which is led by these same rabid boards.
We need competent board members who have a judicial temperment sitting on the boards and serving in the staff positions. This will only happen if the appraisers in the individual states have some say in the selection process.
Second we need our board members and their staff to be fully conversant with USPAP and they must accept the national interpretation of standards. Every appraiser who has a desire to serve as a board member, or act as an investigator or witness for a board ought to be able to pass the national exam for instructors. It does not good to have political lackies sit through a course, the NCAB has attened numerous instructor USPAP updates and has not learned anything about USPAP.
You need to look at what is happening in Illinois, the board is writing its own interpretation of USPAP into law. That board will be able to take any appraiser's license they wish if the investigator disagrees with comp selection or just opines that a report is misleading, all without providing a substantive basis for disagreeing. Theuy want their investigators to have even more lattitude than the NCAB investigators.
These boards are becoming agents for the overzealous appraisers who consider any other appraiser that expresses a contrary opinion to be a "bad appraiser" that must be culled from the appraising ranks.
The final action that is imperativer is that the federal agency that regulates the boards needs to stop playing politics and needs to do its job. Three years ago I identified the NCAB as being a witchhunt board who disregarded USPAP in its disciplinary process, but the ASC found it to be politically expediant to side step the issue.
Will you step to the plate on getting some change going forward and prepare an article calling for change?
Regards
Tom Hildebrandt GAA
As I suggested in my prior post, I am not really all that keen about personally writing a story centering around my case. The primary reason is that I have already invested a great amount of my time into this issue, and am looking forward to a three month vacation.
While my case is fun to read, I think the issue is a lot bigger.
I would be much more inclined in having a story which cuts to the core of what changes are needed in our enforcement system. The story can reference this thread and other threads and forums, but we need to get some momentum going to control rabid boards and ARRO which is led by these same rabid boards.
We need competent board members who have a judicial temperment sitting on the boards and serving in the staff positions. This will only happen if the appraisers in the individual states have some say in the selection process.
Second we need our board members and their staff to be fully conversant with USPAP and they must accept the national interpretation of standards. Every appraiser who has a desire to serve as a board member, or act as an investigator or witness for a board ought to be able to pass the national exam for instructors. It does not good to have political lackies sit through a course, the NCAB has attened numerous instructor USPAP updates and has not learned anything about USPAP.
You need to look at what is happening in Illinois, the board is writing its own interpretation of USPAP into law. That board will be able to take any appraiser's license they wish if the investigator disagrees with comp selection or just opines that a report is misleading, all without providing a substantive basis for disagreeing. Theuy want their investigators to have even more lattitude than the NCAB investigators.
These boards are becoming agents for the overzealous appraisers who consider any other appraiser that expresses a contrary opinion to be a "bad appraiser" that must be culled from the appraising ranks.
The final action that is imperativer is that the federal agency that regulates the boards needs to stop playing politics and needs to do its job. Three years ago I identified the NCAB as being a witchhunt board who disregarded USPAP in its disciplinary process, but the ASC found it to be politically expediant to side step the issue.
Will you step to the plate on getting some change going forward and prepare an article calling for change?
Regards
Tom Hildebrandt GAA
Austin
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Virginia
I just got back from three days in Charlottesville, Virginia, at a real old fashion Virginia wedding at the University of Virginia. Everybody that is anybody was there as they say. Saturday morning I went in the University bookstore and read the posts but couldn’t respond.
After reading some of the above post about the tyranny in our judicial and administrative agencies, I couldn’t help but wonder what Presidents Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe might think about this situation. The wedding was held in the U. VA. Chapel at Mr. Jefferson’s University. The wedding reception was held on the university grounds in the first building constructed at the University. Presidents Jefferson and Monroe laid the corner stone of this building with their own hands in 1819. We sipped Virginia wine in the gardens behind the dorms designed by Jefferson and in the backyard of the room Edgar Allen Poe lived in. We also sipped fine wine at the home of President Monroe in the shadow of Monticello home of President Jefferson.
Maybe we need a national revival on American values as the atmosphere of the country today is more akin to some Eastern European police state than the good old USA as it use to be. Somewhere along the line, we have lost the way. Some of us need to get back to our roots. This kind of tyranny spurred the last American Revolution and maybe we are on the verge of the next American Revolution.
As I was sipping red wine I was looking at old portraits of Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe, and reading the founding documents hanging on the walls. This is where America was conceived, so maybe it is appropriate to be there at this particular time. The view and clean air from atop Little Mountain from the home of Jefferson has a way of putting things in their proper perspective. “Viva the Revolution!” On to Victory! To arms, to arms, the lawyers are coming, the lawyers are coming! We will hang together in this fight, or we will all hang separately!
After reading some of the above post about the tyranny in our judicial and administrative agencies, I couldn’t help but wonder what Presidents Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe might think about this situation. The wedding was held in the U. VA. Chapel at Mr. Jefferson’s University. The wedding reception was held on the university grounds in the first building constructed at the University. Presidents Jefferson and Monroe laid the corner stone of this building with their own hands in 1819. We sipped Virginia wine in the gardens behind the dorms designed by Jefferson and in the backyard of the room Edgar Allen Poe lived in. We also sipped fine wine at the home of President Monroe in the shadow of Monticello home of President Jefferson.
Maybe we need a national revival on American values as the atmosphere of the country today is more akin to some Eastern European police state than the good old USA as it use to be. Somewhere along the line, we have lost the way. Some of us need to get back to our roots. This kind of tyranny spurred the last American Revolution and maybe we are on the verge of the next American Revolution.
As I was sipping red wine I was looking at old portraits of Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe, and reading the founding documents hanging on the walls. This is where America was conceived, so maybe it is appropriate to be there at this particular time. The view and clean air from atop Little Mountain from the home of Jefferson has a way of putting things in their proper perspective. “Viva the Revolution!” On to Victory! To arms, to arms, the lawyers are coming, the lawyers are coming! We will hang together in this fight, or we will all hang separately!
Tom,
I am not the expert on this issue. You are as close to the matter as anyone. It's your story. I should not be the one to tell it. I am providing you the forum if you care to use it.
I am not suggesting you do it now. Just tell me when it is convenient for you.
Joan Trice
I am not the expert on this issue. You are as close to the matter as anyone. It's your story. I should not be the one to tell it. I am providing you the forum if you care to use it.
I am not suggesting you do it now. Just tell me when it is convenient for you.
Joan Trice
Austin
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Virginia
Joan: Maybe you should start a soap opera series. You could key the series off of your namesake, Joan or Arc, featuring a series of martyrs burned at the stake for practicing heresy. You could show the dramatic ten-year trials of Tom Hilderbrandt, Steve Vertin, Dave Johnson, and a host of others yet to be tried by the “Inquisition” ending each adventure with the members of the NCAB and or OREB in hooded robes with pointed hats burning their victims at the stake. You could get inside the heads of the heretics as they rot away in the dungeons and get into some really deep psychobabble about the mental state of the iconoclastic mind of the heretics and go into the reasons they attack sacred orthodox establishment thinking.
You could bring back the rack and maybe the high priest of some state appraisal board could disembowel a living victim once in a while just to spice things up. The penalty for questioning the logic of matched pairs no less. Sponsors would beat a path to your door. A good title for the show would be: “The USPAP Inquisitions During The Return of The Dark Ages.”
You could bring back the rack and maybe the high priest of some state appraisal board could disembowel a living victim once in a while just to spice things up. The penalty for questioning the logic of matched pairs no less. Sponsors would beat a path to your door. A good title for the show would be: “The USPAP Inquisitions During The Return of The Dark Ages.”
Stephen J. Vertin MAI
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Illinois
Joan:
Appraisers are growing very concerned with what is occurring in some of these Boards. In particular Illinois and North Carolina. I think your readers would be interested too. You do not have to be an expert on this subject to write an article. Heck, its appraisal related and you are an appraiser. Many journalist write articles way beyond their area of expertise (science, medicine, etc.). At least you are writing within your chosen profession.
What is happening is relatively simple. Enforcement and investigators are refusing to understand circumstances under which an appraisal has been developed and reported. Appraisal are not being judged within the context of there identified purpose, intended use and intended users as stated within reports. Since many of these Board's mainly consist of residential appraisers, most reports are judged in the context of Fannie Mae guide lines even if the client is not Fannie Mae. Furthermore, if reports are not stand alone documents typically called self-contained, even though reports are clearly labeled otherwise, appraisers run the risk of fines, sanctions, suspension and even revocation. This issue is becoming serious and needs intervention.
Furthermore, these Boards have "built-in creditability". I love that term (thank you Tom). In other words they are instantly creditable to the public no matter what their back ground. This is a baffling phenomena because you do not see lottery winners giving stock advice in the Wall Street Journal. No one would listen to them. Why? Because they did not make their fortune in the market. It was given to them. It is the same with these people on Boards. Because they know someone, somewhere in the pollical arena they are offered a job. They have essentially hit the lottery. The twist comes with the fact now everyone seeks their counsel instead of seeing it for what it really is. Even other appraisers judgments are effected by built-in credibility. When we first started writing on this issue, several years back, we were getting incredible heat from other appraisers who were basically saying, well if the Board said it, it must be true.
We have basically given our business and livelihood to politician, Realtors and bankers. The real story comes back to why aren't our organizations doing anything about this? Why aren't we as appraisers doing anything about this? No doubt because a number of appraisers are not aware of what is going on. That is where you, possibly, fit in. As a journalist you can not be afraid of controversy. That is what most real stories have.
Steve Vertin
Appraisers are growing very concerned with what is occurring in some of these Boards. In particular Illinois and North Carolina. I think your readers would be interested too. You do not have to be an expert on this subject to write an article. Heck, its appraisal related and you are an appraiser. Many journalist write articles way beyond their area of expertise (science, medicine, etc.). At least you are writing within your chosen profession.
What is happening is relatively simple. Enforcement and investigators are refusing to understand circumstances under which an appraisal has been developed and reported. Appraisal are not being judged within the context of there identified purpose, intended use and intended users as stated within reports. Since many of these Board's mainly consist of residential appraisers, most reports are judged in the context of Fannie Mae guide lines even if the client is not Fannie Mae. Furthermore, if reports are not stand alone documents typically called self-contained, even though reports are clearly labeled otherwise, appraisers run the risk of fines, sanctions, suspension and even revocation. This issue is becoming serious and needs intervention.
Furthermore, these Boards have "built-in creditability". I love that term (thank you Tom). In other words they are instantly creditable to the public no matter what their back ground. This is a baffling phenomena because you do not see lottery winners giving stock advice in the Wall Street Journal. No one would listen to them. Why? Because they did not make their fortune in the market. It was given to them. It is the same with these people on Boards. Because they know someone, somewhere in the pollical arena they are offered a job. They have essentially hit the lottery. The twist comes with the fact now everyone seeks their counsel instead of seeing it for what it really is. Even other appraisers judgments are effected by built-in credibility. When we first started writing on this issue, several years back, we were getting incredible heat from other appraisers who were basically saying, well if the Board said it, it must be true.
We have basically given our business and livelihood to politician, Realtors and bankers. The real story comes back to why aren't our organizations doing anything about this? Why aren't we as appraisers doing anything about this? No doubt because a number of appraisers are not aware of what is going on. That is where you, possibly, fit in. As a journalist you can not be afraid of controversy. That is what most real stories have.
Steve Vertin
- Status