TAF Partnered With REVAA

[RCA]

I'll give you both responses right now. Consider it my way of speaking truth to emo - that emo not being a productive use of your efforts.

There are bylaws in effect which were established many years ago at the outset, before AMCs were even a thing in the appraisal business. The bylaws spell out the criteria for membership in the advisory councils (plural), the role for each being "advisory", not governing.

"advisory" means that, in any case, they have contact and can engage in influence peddling, such as paying for drinks for pretty girls of dubious reputation in a nightclub in the Cayman Islands.

There being a world of difference between the two.

Well, now, you think? What if the advisor is wealthy and the governing entity is in need of resources?

If an entity meets those criteria then that is what it is.

No. There can be really so much more to the story.

OTOH if there's some violation or deficiency in meeting those criteria then that would be a legitimate reason for cutting them off.

The best investigators would have problems finding violations and deficiencies when events can be construed in different ways, some legitimate, based on superficial evidence such as cash transactions that can be money left on a table that pretty gal borrowed without permission after such and such, or polite invitations to dinner in a restaurant which unknowingly caters to many different types of clientele.

But your argument doesn't revolve around citing any actual deficiencies or violations WRT those established criteria.

The crime is entering the wrong type of environment, getting involved in a situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place, being ignorant of things that should have been researched in advance before committing to, and so on and so forth.

I repeatedly ask for some hint of such and you repeatedly dodge.

He is not dodging, he is INDIRECTLY pointing out that you are the one dodging and obfuscating the truth to protect someone, some organization, perhaps yourself!

After this long an in lieu of any information or indications to the contrary

To the contrary of what? Situational awareness. What kinds of practices do you engage in with your clients? Do you take them to dinner? Do you wine and dine them. Please tell us this is absolutely not true.

all that's left is to conclude that you apparently think that's the only option you have to avoid undermining your own argument.

You have already undermined yours.

You got no dots to connect, and you know it.

Those well-documented trips to the Cayman Islands are data. The Cayman Islands isn't Havana, but selling sex there is legal, and it is very discreet according to the information I have. The girls don't advertise themselves as prostitutes, only as poor but beautiful ( I have admittedly never been to any Caribbean islands.)

All that's left after your (I can't cite any deficiencies or violations of the membership criteria) argument, is the idea that AMCs and fee appraisers are competitors for clients in the tech-enabled marketplace for services.

Well, that is far from the truth.

Your argument is entirely financial in motivation, not based on any principles or objectivity or fairness WRT the topics of TAFs only mission, which is Appraisal Standards and Appraiser Qualifications. The commerce aspects of the appraisal business being entirely outside their purview.

That is the way you see it? I thought that unethical behavior was inextricably bound to financial issues. If you have enough money, what can't you do?

You just want what you want to the exclusion of all other competitors in the marketplace.

That's competition. That's survival. These are completely legal activities -- AS LONG AS ALL SIDES ABIDE BY THE RULES.

If - as you imply - there is no legitimate reason for TAF to simply listen to all the various and competing interests in the marketplace,

TAF needs to focus on appraisal, the science of valuation, and all that entails. They are incompetent in that regard. They can't do their job because even without any sinister motivations, they are flat-out incompetent to do their job.

then the IAC should be disbanded altogether and TAF should operate in complete isolation to any entity which participates in any facet of the valuation sector in our economy.

If the IAC had any competence, it would long since have been working with high-level universities to develop highly qualified appraisers, schooled in data mining, statistics, mathematics, computer programming, real estate and other relevant fields. This takes time. If they started putting together plans this year, perhaps in 3 years, they could begin taking 3rd-year college students into some program so that maybe in 10 years, we would start a new generation of reasonably good appraisers. In another 20 years, then we would be pretty much there. But, long-range thinkers like this are very few and far between, de facto non-existent.

Including appraisers. If equal is equal and fair is fair. A logical and consistent application of your argument would result in distancing TAFs orientation even farther away from everyone actually working in the marketplace for services. Not closer. That outcome feeding even more into your other allegation that the appraisers on these boards don't appraise and so therefore are not considered real appraisers.

As for who approaches this discussion from their left brain vs their right brain, I'll leave that to them. I know from experience with appraisers that nobody can tell an appraiser what to think or which opinions to hold so I don't do that. I just air my reasoning out and ask for everyone else to do the same. Then our peers can consider both sides of these issues and form their own conclusions. Just like I do in my day job as a professional appraiser.

You are too personal here. It would be best if you focused more on the health of the appraisal industry. It is largely dying, in case you don't know. I wouldn't even call it appraisal. Many non-appraisers can do just as good a job appraising a house as appraisers.

=====

The best that can be said of TAF is that it is engaging in short term remedies, - WITHOUT taking care of the long term problem. But, yes, what can they really do? - As no reputable University such as Stanford or UC Berkeley would seriously engage with those corrupt idiots.

 

[Carnivore]

So one way to fight back is to make yourself Scarce! Keep running your Appraisal Business AND get other types of Licenses i,e RE Boker; Licensed Home Inspector. Become a HUD Inspector

https://apps.HUD.gov/offices/reac/products/pass/PDFs/steps_become_upcs-inspector.pdf

How do I become a REAC Certified UPCS Inspector?Introduction All HUD assisted and insured housing (MF and Public Housing) covered under the Department’s Uniform Physical Condition Standards (UPCS) regulations must be inspected by individuals certified in the Department’s UPCS inspection protocol and procedures. The Physical Assessment Sub System(PASS) of the Office of Public and Indian Housing - Real Estate Assessment Center (PIH-REAC) facilitates these inspections. The information a bove is how to become a certified UPCS inspector. Procedures The following 14 steps describe how to become a certified UPCS inspector.

 

[Mejappz]

The crime is entering the wrong type of environment, getting involved in a situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place, being ignorant of things that should have been researched in advance before committing to, and so on and so forth.

All of these allegations are detailed in Jeremy Baggott’s book, except for the one concerning an underage girl, which I introduced myself and, while it may seem far-fetched, is not entirely implausible. How can you engage in a meaningful discussion with someone who refuses to read the book and understand the facts, all of which are public information? I suspect the reason is that some individuals choose to ignore the truth, whether due to personal concealments or alternative motives.

 

[George Hatch]

What are the names of some of the organizations that they have denied membership to? I mean sponsors. I mean, partners.

I have no clue as to who they didn't admit or why they didn't admit them. Does it matter? Isn't the topic at hand whether or not TAF has a legitimate reason for kicking a current IAC member out even if that member isn't in violation of the terms of their membership?

Your clients use the term "valued trading partner". You don't take their usage of that term so literally, do you? Of course not. You don't *ignore* their input, either; even if and when you decide to do otherwise. That's how "advice" is generally expected to work.

 

[George Hatch]

All of these allegations are detailed in Jeremy Baggott’s book, except for the one concerning an underage girl, which I introduced myself and, while it may seem far-fetched, is not entirely implausible. How can you engage in a meaningful discussion with someone who refuses to read the book and understand the facts, all of which are public information? I suspect the reason is that some individuals choose to ignore the truth, whether due to personal concealments or alternative motives.

Well then you can parrot those examples straightaway. Easy. I'm not paying that idiot for the purpose of arguing his opinions. You're parroting them so .. proceed to parrot.

TAF does "Appraisal Standards" and "Appraiser Qualifications". That's your starting point. Go.

 

[Mejappz]

If the IAC had any competence, it would long since have been working with high-level universities to develop highly qualified appraisers, schooled in data mining, statistics, mathematics, computer programming, real estate and other relevant fields. This takes time. If they started putting together plans this year, perhaps in 3 years, they could begin taking 3rd-year college students into some program so that maybe in 10 years, we would start a new generation of reasonably good appraisers. In another 20 years, then we would be pretty much there. But, long-range thinkers like this are very few and far between, de facto non-existent.

Back in 2008, a group of appraisers suggested setting up a research and development committee to standardize analysis methods for different situations. They pitched the idea to the appraisal profession and TAF, but the response was classic red tape: “We’re not sure how that’s going to work out,” and so on.

Now, the education industry is trying to make a quick buck by teaching appraisers how to fill out a new “form”—even though no such form actually exists. Focusing on form-filling seems like the least important thing right now. Fast forward to 2024, and the industry is scrambling to catch up with all the tech advancements from the past few years. By the time they’re done with their meetings and webinars, they’ll still be decades behind.

 

[George Hatch]

"advisory" means that, in any case, they have contact and can engage in influence peddling, such as paying for drinks for pretty girls of dubious reputation in a nightclub in the Cayman Islands.


Well, now, you think? What if the advisor is wealthy and the governing entity is in need of resources?


No. There can be really so much more to the story.


The best investigators would have problems finding violations and deficiencies when events can be construed in different ways, some legitimate, based on superficial evidence such as cash transactions that can be money left on a table that pretty gal borrowed without permission after such and such, or polite invitations to dinner in a restaurant which unknowingly caters to many different types of clientele.


The crime is entering the wrong type of environment, getting involved in a situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place, being ignorant of things that should have been researched in advance before committing to, and so on and so forth.


He is not dodging, he is INDIRECTLY pointing out that you are the one dodging and obfuscating the truth to protect someone, some organization, perhaps yourself!


To the contrary of what? Situational awareness. What kinds of practices do you engage in with your clients? Do you take them to dinner? Do you wine and dine them. Please tell us this is absolutely not true.


You have already undermined yours.

Those well-documented trips to the Cayman Islands are data. The Cayman Islands isn't Havana, but selling sex there is legal, and it is very discreet according to the information I have. The girls don't advertise themselves as prostitutes, only as poor but beautiful ( I have admittedly never been to any Caribbean islands.)


Well, that is far from the truth.


That is the way you see it? I thought that unethical behavior was inextricably bound to financial issues. If you have enough money, what can't you do?


That's competition. That's survival. These are completely legal activities -- AS LONG AS ALL SIDES ABIDE BY THE RULES.


TAF needs to focus on appraisal, the science of valuation, and all that entails. They are incompetent in that regard. They can't do their job because even without any sinister motivations, they are flat-out incompetent to do their job.


If the IAC had any competence, it would long since have been working with high-level universities to develop highly qualified appraisers, schooled in data mining, statistics, mathematics, computer programming, real estate and other relevant fields. This takes time. If they started putting together plans this year, perhaps in 3 years, they could begin taking 3rd-year college students into some program so that maybe in 10 years, we would start a new generation of reasonably good appraisers. In another 20 years, then we would be pretty much there. But, long-range thinkers like this are very few and far between, de facto non-existent.



You are too personal here. It would be best if you focused more on the health of the appraisal industry. It is largely dying, in case you don't know. I wouldn't even call it appraisal. Many non-appraisers can do just as good a job appraising a house as appraisers.

=====

The best that can be said of TAF is that it is engaging in short term remedies, - WITHOUT taking care of the long term problem. But, yes, what can they really do? - As no reputable University such as Stanford or UC Berkeley would seriously engage with those corrupt idiots.

Not one word of which includes any reason TAF could cite - under their bylaws - for cutting off the undesirables. Which that is the topic of this particular tangent.

When you appraise a property and the property owner expresses their opinion of the value or presents you with comps they think are relevant to the valuation, that action can be considered "advisory" in nature. You might consider that advice and accept/reject part or all of that advice; or you might totally ignore that advice and do what you were going to do anyway. But simply allowing them to provide their input doesn't equate to submitting to their demands. It doesn't necessarily lead to the outcomes they might want. Unless you actually do submit to them, which I prefer to think that you don't do that.

That's what we're looking for in this discussion: some indication that any of TAFs boards have transitioned from merely "considering" IAC advice to "submitting" to them in conflict with the underlying concepts and principles.

 

[Mejappz]

The crime is entering the wrong type of environment, getting involved in a situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place, being ignorant of things that should have been researched in advance before committing to, and so on and so forth.

We recently saw the Appraisal Subcommittee potentially committing a felony, and some responses on the forum were typical. Some are essentially saying, “Well, they were instructed to do it by the administration,” which implies that if your superiors tells you it’s okay to break the law, then it’s acceptable to do so. It’s clear that for some, it’s less about doing what’s right and more about self-preservation, which explains all the pandering.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Ouch, Sandy and the AI are taking a beating on LinkedIn. Several people are demanding an audit of what was spent on the rebranding and PAREA. And someone posted the AI's tax returns from 20, 21, and 22. Ouch again. Maybe the AI should have a mandatory reputational risk class every cycle.

 

[Mejappz]

Ouch, Sandy and the AI are taking a beating on LinkedIn. Several people are demanding an audit of what was spent on the rebranding and PAREA. And someone posted the AI's tax returns from 20, 21, and 22. Ouch. Maybe the AI should have a mandatory reputational risk every cycle.

That’s another colossal failure. People are not stupid they know full well that getting into an industry that pays minimum wage and is under the control of regulatory capture is not a wise decision. So it's money flushed down the toilet.