Three days in a row. Different GLA than advertised.

[alebrewer]

How could you have been providing a point value for years as an appraiser if you believe that it is a misconception that point values do exist?

How have you held a credential as long as you have and still believe point values do exist?

 

[J Grant]

How have you held a credential as long as you have and still believe point values do exist?

We are appraisers and we opine market value opinions which can be expressed as a value range a benchmark, or as a point value. So of course, they "exist"- a point value exists in the appraisal. WTF else ? Nobody has ever claimed an appreciation vlaue opinion expressed as a point value to be an absolute or universal benchmark. So what are you arguing then...

What have you been doing as an appraiser when you signed your opinion of value expressed as a point value - do you put a comment next to it that it does not exist?

 

[alebrewer]

We are appraisers and we opine market value opinions which can be expressed as a value range a benchmark, or as a point value. So of course, they "exist"- a point value exists in the appraisal. WTF else ? Nobody has ever claimed an appreciation vlaue opinion expressed as a point value to be an absolute or universal benchmark. So what are you arguing then...

What have you been doing as an appraiser when you signed your opinion of value expressed as a point value - do you put a comment next to it that it does not exist?

You just agreed in a prior post that there is no 'real' point value for a property. Give it up, J. You're being argumentative and it's annoying.

 

[J Grant]

You just agreed in a prior post that there is no 'real' point value for a property. Give it up, J. You're being argumentative and it's annoying.

This relates to a flawed premise you insist on -you posted here that a point value does not exist, now you change it to there is no "real" point value for a property. Neither applies to appraisals. That is an argument for the general public to make.

I have said numerous times in posts over the years, that an appraisal point value opinion is not expected to be some universally accepted one and only value - yet you act like I never said it. And ignore the fact that the appraisal does not claim some god like "real" value you seem to think it does (why? ) The appraisal report states the opinion of MV ( in this case, a point value) is an opinion, good for X eff date and intended for an identified purpose and a limited set of users/client.

Your argument goes that since a "real" point value does not exist, then any number in the range is as good as the other, which is false. The appraiser should pick a point value that is the most credible market value opinion supported within the range.

 

[alebrewer]

Your argument goes that since a "real" point value does not exist, then any number in the range is as good as the other, which is false. The appraiser should pick a point value that is the most credible market value opinion supported within the range.

Ok - I'll bite, but this is the last time. I have never said one point is as good as the other, although the gist is similar. What I've said (and I don't know why you keep misquoting me) is that, within a well supported range of value, any point within that range is no more or less statistically significant than any other - and that is true, not false. As to your 2nd point, again - there is no 'most' credible point value within a well supported range.

Only an arrogant fool would assume that the data are good enough to select a single point value as the 'real' value of a property. If you believe that, you and Bert should go into business together. We select point values because that's a SOW decision that we are comfortable making. And why wouldn't we be? So long as that point value is within our range, its just as valid as any other point value within that range.

Now - move on to some other silly argument and let's please put the kabash on this one.

 

[J Grant]

Ok - I'll bite, but this is the last time. I have never said one point is as good as the other, although the gist is similar. What I've said (and I don't know why you keep misquoting me) is that, within a well supported range of value, any point within that range is no more or less statistically significant than any other - and that is true, not false. As to your 2nd point, again - there is no 'most' credible point value within a well supported range.

Only an arrogant fool would assume that the data are good enough to select a single point value as the 'real' value of a property. If you believe that, you and Bert should go into business together. We select point values because that's a SOW decision that we are comfortable making. And why wouldn't we be? So long as that point value is within our range, its just as valid as any other point value within that range.

Now - move on to some other silly argument and let's please put the kabash on this one.

This is not a silly argument, though you are free to stop at any time. I am busy with reports to write and do not personally want to waste time on silly things. I am spending time on this because it is echoed by a few here over the years and points to not grasping the fundamental concept of what an appraisal is - a valuation MODEL, not a real-world, actual price opinion or prediction.

And since no appraiser states their value opinion is the "real" value of a property on an appraisal, the comment about arrogant fools is NA. Why do you say appraisers claim their value is the "real value", when they do no such thing? We need to stick with appraisal terminology and not invent verbiage like " The real value".

What would the value definition of " real value" be? I have never seen it.

You make the argument that one point value is just as valid as any other point value within that range, but we are not providing a statistical model. We are doing an appraisal. We are expected to have a credible, supported reason why we chose point value 230k instead of 220k when they are both within the range. That is expected by clients and is typical peer practice.

 

[alebrewer]

Is it impossible for you to not make personal assaults, J? You are EXTREMELY petty invoking the opinion that some folks don't grasp the fundamental concept of what an appraisal is. Pathetic.

I've found that, if J or Fern is on one side of a debate, it's probably not a bad idea to be on the other side.

 

[J Grant]

Is it impossible for you to not make personal assaults, J? You are EXTREMELY petty invoking the opinion that some folks don't grasp the fundamental concept of what an appraisal is. Pathetic.

I've found that, if J or Fern is on one side of a debate, it's probably not a bad idea to be on the other side.

I'm sorry, but it is personal since we are the people behind the statements we make. I; 've been wrong sometimes here but at least I will recognize it.

It is false to say appraisers claim their value opinions is the "real value." And then using that as a basis to believe that any point value is as valid as another within the range, when there are data and analysis-supported reasons for selecting one point value instead of another.

If your subject was the best condition/upgraded among the comps in the range, it would make sense to opine it at the higher end of value. Conversely, if your subject is the least upgraded and more dated condition among your comps, it makes sense to opine it at the lower end of the value range. Just one example among many, since each appraisal is different.

 

[Zoe]

I am sure that it is not. I am not aware of any system or process that is. And that is more to my point - those who criticize the use of alternatives to traditional appraisals often use an implied assumption that the traditional appraisal is a foolproof system. When alternatives are tested, they are not evaluated to see if they are perfect, or as you said, "foolproof." They are tested and compared to the traditional appraisals process, with no expectation that either is perfect.

Ale suggests that appraiser use of tax info alone for the subject is an "extreme scenario." My years as a state investigator suggests otherwise.

I'll switch gears on you just to puzzle your brain.

I'll start by saying many local tax assessors never go inside a property. The age of the property is somewhat relative.

Appraisers predominantly by percentage are way more accurate than any party.

Real property relative to MV assignment is most unique market in the world.

Now, I will puzzle your brain after assertions.

Danny, How are alternatives evaluated and tested based on your quote of "foolproof"?

 

[Zoe]

Lets play on hybrids and appraisal management companies and tax assessors and whoever vs licensed appraisers. Let the games begin.