We Must Start Policing Our Own!

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Besides most of you that turn in appraisers are only trying to get rid of some competition in hopes of getting more work.

Now, now, Dale. Since you did put in 'most of you', this can't truly be considered a gross exageration but....

I'm quite happy with the amount of work I get and sometimes I turn some down. My motivations are:

* because of the perception of way too many that the appraiser is only involved to make the value wanted

* because of Fannie and Freddie saying that appraisals only come in at the sale prices so what good are appraisals

* because the head of the local investors club said to newbie investors that, "If the first appraisal doesn't make the value you want, get another appraiser - here's a list of the appraisers to use so you won't have that problem."

The lenders don't turn in the bad ones even though the FNMA guidelines say that they are supposed to. Who else is going to? If the ethical appraisers don't, just who else is going to? PLUS, it's practically impossible to actually get a copy of the appraisal. I really would like to see at least the states, if not in USPAP, that it IS the responsibility of a Review Appraiser to file a complaint on an obviously bad appraisal. Really, who else has the appraisal and, knows what they have, to be able to file the complaint?

 

[Leon Stewart]

I have done many reviews of appraisers work throughout the country and have not turned in a single appraiser. Never did I recieve instructions from my clients to turn anyone in to the athorities. I believe my job as a reviewer is to do just that and not to be an industry policeman. Besides most of you that turn in appraisers are only trying to get rid of some competition in hopes of getting more work. :twisted: :wink:

Dale:

You hit a home Run with this Post.

Leon

 

[Leon Stewart]

Leon

Personally, Ben's post appeared to me to be pretty competent. As for licensing, I have a sub that has been appraising since 1995, no license. At first she did not want to bother, then a hiatus due to Lupus. Now she is working that way and is going thru my old files to reconstruct her work history.

After 7 years I consider her to be highly competent and certainly able to voice her opinion when she wants. Speak your peace Ben.

Ter

Terrel:

Possessing a License is evidence of one's Tested accomplishments in a particular profession. You might know of a persons skill on assigned duties while working with them on a day to day basis, but when a Lender hires a person to do advance evaluations of another's work, the Lender has to have some evidense of that person's knowledge and expertise to perform the task, not heresay or someone telling them what a person suppose to know, but some form of License or Certification. If a person have to be licensed to prepare the report, why shouldn't a person be Licensed to check for any descrepancies? This profession is in need of a lot of tweaking before it gets to a level of quality.

Leon

 

[BenLuby]

Leon,
I never once said that I was going to volunteer to review another appraisers work. I am, as you happily point out, only registered, which I am glad of at this time.
The people who are shoving false numbers are the licensed and above appraisers. I realize I still have a way to go to become a fully competent appraiser, like the rest of my career. I figure the day I think I know it all is the day I better find another job. I do eventually intend to do review work, after I get licensed. And no, I do not need to do so to generate work. My mentor has plenty to keep us busy for a long time. But if you simply reported the appraisals with blatant violations, such as missing easements, previous sales, etc. That would alleviate a lot of the problems. Yes, the boards tend to go for continuing education over license revocation, but guess what? Sooner or later either the number roller is going to get sick of it and straighten up, or get out of the business, or the board is going to get tired of it and suspend them. Either way, enough reports about valid problems and it will clear it up. As to the issue of not knowing what I am talking about, you don't have to be a dog catcher for twenty years to know when you see a load of dog crap. Any one with half a brain and a bit of training can spot it.

 

[Rick Hess]

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:41 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terrel L. Shields wrote:
Leon

Personally, Ben's post appeared to me to be pretty competent. As for licensing, I have a sub that has been appraising since 1995, no license. At first she did not want to bother, then a hiatus due to Lupus. Now she is working that way and is going thru my old files to reconstruct her work history.

After 7 years I consider her to be highly competent and certainly able to voice her opinion when she wants. Speak your peace Ben.

Ter


Leon Said:

Possessing a License is evidence of one's Tested accomplishments in a particular profession. You might know of a persons skill on assigned duties while working with them on a day to day basis, but when a Lender hires a person to do advance evaluations of another's work, the Lender has to have some evidense of that person's knowledge and expertise to perform the task, not heresay or someone telling them what a person suppose to know, but some form of License or Certification. If a person have to be licensed to prepare the report, why shouldn't a person be Licensed to check for any descrepancies? This profession is in need of a lot of tweaking before it gets to a level of quality.

I find this a bit disturbing to say the least. Where does it say someone with a license is competent? OR, operating in a legal and ethical manner?
How many incompetant drivers are on the road with legal licenses? How many licensed Drs. misdiagnose an illness, botch a surgury? How many licensed lawyers? ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

As with any profession, I believe it is encumbent upon those in it to weed out those who harm the profession. Whether thru incompetence, laziness, stupidity or with the knowledge that what they are doing is unethical, if not illegal.

Just my $.02 worth

Rick

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Leon,

I am very aware of some newly registered appraisers - and one that isn't any kind of licensed appraiser - that are doing reviews, regularly. This is what I am told by some that are doing them and by some that were in those offices where it is happening. They will not admit it to the lender that ordered the review though.

You are very correct regarding who SHOULD be doing reviews.

Burying your head in the sand - or looking the other way - will not help you or anyone else.

Again, my opinion is that if you are not actively trying to solve the problem, you have become part of the problem. No accusation - just opinion.


Ben,

I do enjoy your posts.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Leon,

Take a look at this:

http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2735

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

>>Besides most of you that turn in appraisers are only trying to get rid of some competition in hopes of getting more work. <<

Perhaps that explains why I have been handing out my competitors pens.

Registration, certification, whats the difference if the owner of that license does not have integrity and knowledge?

As for reviewers. Who reviews the reviewer? I think that there ought to be minimum experience levels for reviewers, too. But the appraisal industry is much broader than many people give credit. I know a 10 year vet of assessor's office who quit and went to work as a fee appraiser. He had exactly 1 URAR appraisal under his belt, yet was certified residential. Once his report writing skills were up to snuff, he comprehends the rest.

Back to my original point, anyone at any level of skill should be able to participate in this forum without being browbeat for lack of experience. Some of us started out on the green side ourselves. Certainly I would have loved a forum like this when I was a greenhorn. I took 2 weeks to do a poultry farm on the first one I did without help. And I stand by it today.

Most times when I see a really crummy report, it usually was one that the person spent more time than they intended so at some point simply finished it and went on. Your screw up in miscalculating how much time it would take is no excuse to short change the report because you are not making money. And I see that in experienced appraisers and newbies both. I have made mincemeat out of my subs upon occasion. I have sent one out of here in tears more than once. Go back, start over, do it right. I won't sign it otherwise. And, how else do you learn anything without making a few mistakes.

Unforgiving USPAP says all our reports must be perfect every time. USPAP does not parse between minor technicalities and major infractions. It is up to the State Boards to do that. Often they swallow a camel and choke on a gnat. Giving grevious sanctions for technical violations while bending over backwards for obvious fraud. It is a system that stinks. I cannot blame anyone who does not wish to turn in an appraiser for obvious violations. I have never turned anyone in. And likely won't just because of Board unpredictability.

TER

 

[Leon Stewart]

Rick's quote:

"As with any profession, I believe it is encumbent upon those in it to weed out those who harm the profession. Whether thru incompetence, laziness, stupidity or with the knowledge that what they are doing is unethical, if not illegal"

Rick you are talking about something entirely different than what Ben, Ter , and Me was referring to, and that is, if a person has to be licensed or certified to prepare an Appraisal Report, why shouldn't a person be licensed and have the experience to evaluate the work a licensed/certified appraiser? It seems as if that's a no brainer.

What I understood Ben to be saying was that he as somewhat of a trainee, or one who just got their license is capable of making determinations as to what a licensed appraiser with many years of experience abilities are.

How the profession should be setup is that a Review Appraiser should be a Specialist with many years of Appraisal Experience and he/she shouldn't be the preparer of any original Appraisal Reports in the same market, they should just do Review work. That way the Practicing Appraiser is removed from the market of trying to eliminating his/her own competition.

Leon

 

[Wally Jones]

Interesting topic. Almost 1900 folks have read the posts and almost 70 have contributed.

Turn in a bad appraisal to the state board or ignore it and get on with your job?

There appear to be two extremes.

"Leave 'em alone because since there is inadequate or ineffective enforcement nothing will be done anyway. Besides, we're not paid to be industry policemen."

or -

"USPAP and (some) state regulations clearly spell this job out and anyone who deviates from the printed word should be hanged immediately."

Almost like real life. The solution is somewhere in the middle but continues to frustrate most of us because it's like trying to get a good hold on a blob of jello. The system needs some obvious change if we're serious about ridding the profession of fraudulent appraisers. In the meantime, what to do?

Socrates spent his life trying to get his students to discern the difference between doing what most people would "actually" do when faced with a moral dilemma as opposed to what they "ought" to do.

I suppose when you've tried to do the right thing and failed (turning a bad guy in with no consequences) it's tough to continue doing so. And it's easy to accuse those who turn others in of trying to eliminate the competition. We'll all continue to make our own decisions, but it seems we clearly need a different approach if we're serious about polishing our images. Otherwise, the good 'ole boys are alive and well and will continue to chuckle at us all the way to the bank.