We Must Start Policing Our Own!

[George Hatch]

Wally,

Let's talk about that middle ground that you espouse...

"There appear to be two extremes.

"Leave 'em alone because since there is inadequate or ineffective enforcement nothing will be done anyway. Besides, we're not paid to be industry policemen."

or -

"USPAP and (some) state regulations clearly spell this job out and anyone who deviates from the printed word should be hanged immediately."

There are indeed some people in the industry and some posters on this thread who have advocated leaving everyone else alone, "because it's not our job as reviewers". I agree with you that this is an extreme position of the subject. However, nowhere in this thread has anybody advocated sending people in for every deviation from USPAP, certainly not for the purpose of depriving those people of their licenses for those minor violations. In fact, myself and several others have specifically stated that we aren't interested in chasing minor details and trivia. The only ones worth sending in are the worst of the worst. Fraudulent and misleading. If this is an extreme position, I'd like to see your definition of a middle ground.

If we wouldn't send in the worst of the worst, what would we send in?

As far as I can tell, a policy to basically live and let live, except in the cases where the appraisal report is clearly misleading and fraudulent, does represent the middle ground. Crooked appraisers should not expect protection from state licensing board scrutiny by reviewers acting under some misguided 'code of silence'. This is a situation where silence imples consent. It would be exactly the same as telling police officers not to complain about other cops doing crimes under the color of authority. These days, citizens expect the government to fire and prosecute not only the crooked cop but also any of his peers that stood silently by.

On another note, a couple responses on this thread have indicated concern about frivolous complaints from reviewers, especially those misusing the system to unethically reduce their competition. This is a legitimate concern. It is a given that the reviewers should be held to a standard of conduct that is at least as rigorous as that expected of appraisers. An unethical review can possibly do more damage to our collective credibility than an unethical appraisal. If a reviewer actually has doubts as to whether an appraisal falls under the category of 'worst of the worst', they should very seriously consider not sending it in. A reviewer found to be abusing the system should be subject to disicpline commensurate with the abuse, up to and including the suspension or revocation of their appraisal license. Those allegations of reviewer abuse should be recieve equally serious scrutiny, and where necessary, discipline from the state boards.


George Hatch

 

[Rlong]

A agree there should/needs to be a middle ground. Me heartfelt intentions IF I turned someone in would be to get an appraiser who has been grossly fraudulent. I get tired of being associated with hacks and /or dishonest appraisers.

The only two I have been TEMPTED to turn in were those I was shown by homeowners where the appraiser claimed to do an interior inspection and clearly did not. (did not even enter the yards in both cases). I do not see fake appraiser #1 around anymore, go figure. and although I am tempted to turn in liar #2 I have not. If I were to come across this by him again I probably will.

Funny (not ha ha) part was the owner pointed out the appraiser had done it after closing (her furniture was on the front porch) and signed that he had inspected before closing, (new home), obviously he can claim he "Lost his pictures" and just retook them after closing. However his floor plan is wrong to, he got it off the sales brocure and the model had changed somewhat. Back of subject pic is from 1/4 mile away, across a field, if I had lost the pics I would just go back and take em, not "sneek around" (I know cause I have!!)

I think guys(gals) like this damage my percived value as an appriasal professional. (or increase it to the "your price for a price" loan officers)

 

[Leon Stewart]

Leon,

Take a look at this:

http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2735

Pamela:

That's the way the System works, it's out of control, and some of these "Hotshot" individuals who are doing Reviews and reporting their findings to the State Board are not themselves qualified to do Review work. The Appraisal Profession and the State Boards has to first of all establish what the qualifications are to be a Review Appraiser.

Some of us who have been around for a while have had "Processing Clerks", while doing Desk Reviews, call and ask questions about an appraisal, and at many banks, if a Processors gets a promotion it's usually to Underwriter.

I have another question: If a non-licensed Reviewer reports a licensed appraiser to the State Board, can the Board accept the unlicensed persons findings and testimony as fact, knowing the person don't have any record of being a professional evaluator? I don't see how the Board can accept a report from an unlicensed person. I know they accept complaints from citizens, but they are usually accompained by a professional of some kind.

Leon

 

[BenLuby]

I tend to agree with both George and Leon. I agree with Leon that a registered appraiser should not be doing review work. Unless it is under the tutelage of a licensed appraiser.
I agree with George in that review appraisers should be specialists, with one contingency. If a review appraiser determines that a blatant and calculated discrepancy has occured, another appraiser should be sent the review for a second perusal, just to ensure it. And no client name or appraiser name should be visible. This would help to eliminate any buddy work going on.
Only the worst of the worst should be gone after. Those who intentionally make fraud part of the daily grind. People who make a stupid mistake, that is part of being human. But most people can spot the difference between a typo and a lie. But I also fully believe, as I said earlier, review appraisals should be done by specialized appraisers who have no benifit from being a crook.
But we do need to all be active to the best of our ability to ensure that the industries reputation suffers no more black eyes.

 

[Leon Stewart]

A agree there should/needs to be a middle ground. Me heartfelt intentions IF I turned someone in would be to get an appraiser who has been grossly fraudulent. I get tired of being associated with hacks and /or dishonest appraisers.

The only two I have been TEMPTED to turn in were those I was shown by homeowners where the appraiser claimed to do an interior inspection and clearly did not. (did not even enter the yards in both cases). I do not see fake appraiser #1 around anymore, go figure. and although I am tempted to turn in liar #2 I have not. If I were to come across this by him again I probably will.

Funny (not ha ha) part was the owner pointed out the appraiser had done it after closing (her furniture was on the front porch) and signed that he had inspected before closing, (new home), obviously he can claim he "Lost his pictures" and just retook them after closing. However his floor plan is wrong to, he got it off the sales brocure and the model had changed somewhat. Back of subject pic is from 1/4 mile away, across a field, if I had lost the pics I would just go back and take em, not "sneek around" (I know cause I have!!)

I think guys(gals) like this damage my percived value as an appriasal professional. (or increase it to the "your price for a price" loan officers)

Your Post is a good indication of how frivolous and silly this complaint process has become. Here you are thinking about filing a complaint on "heresay" information you seem to have gotten from a homeowner who evidently didn't like the prior appraiser. Plus the fact that you don't even know what type of Report the prior Appraiser was hired to do. It may have been a 2055 driveby, external only. And why would the homeowner be concerned about a poor inspection unless they wanted to get a higher value for some superficial improvement that they may have made 20 years earlier. With the new Construction, how do you know the prior appraiser did the complete appraisal after Closing? He could have went back to inspect for a final report, or to issue a satisfactory completion certificate or something.

But I can't for the life of me see how anybody can consider filing a complaint against someone when they don't know if or when anything was or was not done. You're showing us with your Post, that there are some strange people out here on these streets nowdays, and it's not a good business for new people to enter, for several reasons.

Leon

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Leon Stewart wrote:

I have another question: If a non-licensed Reviewer reports a licensed appraiser to the State Board, can the Board accept the unlicensed persons findings and testimony as fact, knowing the person don't have any record of being a professional evaluator? I don't see how the Board can accept a report from an unlicensed person. I know they accept complaints from citizens, but they are usually accompained by a professional of some kind.

I think that would be determined state by state. In Florida, anyone can file a conplaint, including anonymously. Many are not acted upon at all if someone (?) that reads it doesn't feel it warrants any further investigation. I have a stack of about 6 appraisals here that I would like to take the time to complete a full Standard 3 Review on and send them in to the state with a complaint. So far, I have sent in one (1) - yes ONE. The complaint was filled out and signed by the homeowner who is also my client for the review. My review and a copy of the original appraisal were sent along with the complaint form. I did this 'pro-bono' as I will the others when I get a chance to do them. The state now has a Standard 3 Review of the fraudulent appraisal report. Their basic investigation is already done and I will welcome any review of my review.

I have also been contacted by an appraiser that found out that I was doing a review on one of his. He wanted the truth, and told me what happened when he did the initial appraisal. He and I are now buddies and help each other. Due to a variety of circumstances, mainly due to major health problems, he had lowered his threshhold on proper due diligence and his reports showed it. I will not turn that one in. Had he called and ranted and raved at me...... I would have turned it in - it was bad enough.

Basically, the idea that no one will turn them in along with the fact that few ever are turned in - has created this mess.

I am not about to turn in anyone for simple violations or typos. I don't care how much I don't like them, I won't do it. A few years ago I did a review on an appraiser that was bad mouthing me all over town. My review said that the appraisal was excellent. I am not a witch hunter. The report that I did send in and the ones waiting to be sent absolutely deserve it.

What do I hope to gain from this? Better 'Disinterested Third Party' Appraisers in my market area. I'm already busy. I don't want more work than what already comes in here. Most of the lenders that use the appraisers that I'm turning in I wouldn't accept even COD work from - I don't want to deal with that kind of lender/LO.

 

[Wally Jones]

George,

I had my tongue firmly in cheek when I mentioned the two extremes. Sorry for anyone who took me literally. Until a better system comes along, I think the majority of ethical, competent appraisers will continue to recognize potentially fraudulent work and will hopefully take steps to halt it.

The printed word is not always a good way to convey how we really feel. Thank goodness for smiley faces and other essential emoticons!

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I would really hesitate to turn in anyone without knowing that I have, in my hand, a copy of the report...all of the report. Again, only in the face of a clearly fraudulent comparable that results in an inflated appraisal would I feel confident in turning in the report.

In our state, the state is supposed to look at the report and determine if further action is warrented. They may contact the appraiser for an explanation. Otherwise, they can and do send a reviewer to check the report.

If you complain, you will have the opportunity via summons to relate why you turned in the report. i.e.- this is not necessarily confidential. Clearly an appraiser has the right to face the accuser. Are you really willing to face the music, even the charge this is professional jealousy, and lose a day, maybe two, and in my case, drive 240 miles to do it?

 

[Bob Ipock]

The accuser is the STATE, the appraisal board. Just like in our court system, the STATE decides if charges will be filed against someone based on the REPORT filed by the citizen. Since the STATE is the accuser, you have a right to "Face" them...the STATE, but not the person who filed the
complaint. The person who filed the complaint has not right to testify unless the asked to or required to by the state.

All the more reason we need good, strong honest appraisal boards, to dismiss wesk complaints and go after cases where the evidence shows substantial wrong doing. The INVESTIGATION is what determines the charges, not the complaint by you or me.


Bob

 

[David C. Johnson]

Bob,

Particularly well said !!

(Except, of course, for a couple of typos here and there !)

dcj