Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[glenn walker]

We are done !! Nobody in this profession or Industry can agree on anything !

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Boy, talk about a thread metastasizing since morning.

For the hundredth time It is about level of professionalism and level of competency in the profession. Both are good for public trust. Eventually it does result in higher fees. The purpose of higher qualifications is not fees.

The public trust is a canard, masking the fact PT has become a meaningless talking point. But fees and qualifications (not college education) are inseparable because if it wasn't, a burger flipper would be as likely as a medical professional to make $50/hour simply because running an MRI and flipping burgers are equally physically demanding.

Congratulations to you guys advocating rolling back requirements. You guys did nothing to improve the profession.

No one has advocated rolling the role of life experience back & the very nature of appraisal is basic experience driven. I am not better prepared to value mineral rights by my degree, but only by my 20 years evaluating "deals", consulting on wells, understanding well logs, declines, & reserves analysis none of which I learned in college. My life experience helping my father building barns, working in the engineering dept. of a land development, and testing materials in an Environmental & construction materials lab was most helpful. I learned it all on the job not in 6 yr. plus college.

I am angry that George thinks the only reason or case for raising qualifications is money. And now he is in this thread watering down the importance of local expertise

Local expertise is in the eyes of the beholder. In the area I work, I cover two entire states for minerals, and I've seen "local" appraisers completely botch valuing minerals because of pure ignorance... degreed or not. But I don't value houses in Lawton, OK, because someone else can do it cheaper. But figuring out the economic factors driving value in Lawton isn't brain surgery. Give me an extra day and I bet a local and my valuation would be similar. Degree or not. So compensation has to be a consideration and GH cannot divorce the two. They are conjoined twins.

How often in your career has a client asked about your academic education whilst deciding whether or not to engage you?

In minerals, it has come up. I've never been asked on any residential, agri or commercial assignment.

How often have you made it onto an approval panel or been awarded an assignment because you had the degree and the next person didn't?

Again, minerals yes, anything else no.

That does not have a bearing on competency to perform an assignment.

Competency requires compensation... And even competent people are tempted to take shortcuts when fees are lacking.

To pretend this is not a huge issue in GSE work is absurd, nearly every appraiser who has worked for an AMC or order dept with low fees, fast turn times and or having service scorecards driving selection has posted about it adversely affecting their work

It forces choices upon people who normally would like to take more time and that has nothing to do with education or even experience. It is an act of desperation more than laziness.

the problem is that far too many people cannot seem to be honest about the fact that they are arguing in favor of their own economic interests and instead try to disguise their arguments as concerns about the borrower, public trust, anti-trust, the FTC

Again compensation and quality of work are reciprocal. That cannot be isolated from each other.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

Competency requires compensation... And even competent people are tempted to take shortcuts when fees are lacking.

I see, the appraisers that work for dirt cheap AMC fees are not competent by your definition.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

the appraisers that work for dirt cheap AMC fees are not competent by your definition.

They may be competent and educated but are willing to take shortcuts with verification and analysis so as to make the hourly rate tolerable. They aren't going to engage in any time-consuming research. How often will you get caught with the wrong zoning? concessions? even financing? And reviewers here complain about boilerplate comments, no original commentary... like a bad photo taken by a wedding photographer, we'll fix the kid picking his nose in "post" if anyone complains. If not, we've skated.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

In large part, appraisers exist out of a need for an independent opinion, not because we are capable of providing the perfect appraisal. No one is capable of providing a perfect appraisal. I think that fact gets lost all too often from all sides.

 

[timd354]

They may be competent and educated but are willing to take shortcuts with verification and analysis so as to make the hourly rate tolerable. They aren't going to engage in any time-consuming research. How often will you get caught with the wrong zoning? concessions? even financing? And reviewers here complain about boilerplate comments, no original commentary... like a bad photo taken by a wedding photographer, we'll fix the kid picking his nose in "post" if anyone complains. If not, we've skated.

Here's the problem with your analysis and theory Terrel. My team and I look at a lot of appraisals and have been doing so for the past 6+ years and while we do catch appraisals with all kinds of errors, it does not appear to us that the % of appraisals with errors is any different between AMC appraisals and non-AMC appraisals. Thus if AMC's are paying lower than banks, it does not seem to be showing up in the quality, at least from what we have been able to tell in our portfolio of over $100 billion of loans that we currently insure. Now, it could be that the AMC's do a lot more to clean up their appraisals after the initial submission through going back to the appraiser for corrections and/or initial information and explanations, but that really does not matter to us as long as the end product that is delivered to us is the same.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

They may be competent and educated but are willing to take shortcuts with verification and analysis so as to make the hourly rate tolerable. They aren't going to engage in any time-consuming research.

They should not take the assignment if they can't or won't complete it competently. Saying they know how or better means it is worse than incompetence: it is willful negligence with abandonment of care.

 

[NachoPerito]

These poll results are perfectly fitting for this community.

Can't agree on anything.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

while we do catch appraisals with all kinds of errors,

Our state sanctioned so many people over sloppy work that the director made a point in our annual "Day with the Board" in Little Rock once to warn the group that unacceptable excuses included short turn times, low fees, inadequate research nor any other impediment to doing it "right." With a typical 1 in 10 reports being thoroughly reviewed there is plenty of reward for shortcuts.

it is willful negligence with abandonment of care.

Does anyone believe Enron did not deliberately hide their true financial condition? Do you think Dr. Ken Lay, PhD economist, didn't know better? And Arthur Anderson auditors didn't know better? When a financial benefit results from taking liberties with the "rules of the game" those about to lose their home or car, or like Enron the very company & ego that went with it, will resort to "willful negligence" out of sheer necessity. Few of us are truly that noble although we might think ourselves above reproach until faced with the cruel pinch of want.