Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[JSmith43]

It is my understanding that screens like the e-ink Kindle are best for reading print in the sun, but they do not display movies very well (something about refresh rate?).

My wife has an iPad mini (non retina) and it is easy on the eyes inside, especially, in low light. But it is a poor performer in direct sunlight.

I have heard that some private pilots use the iPad & iPad mini in the cockpit & have obtained satisfactory results with a certain brand of matte cover which apparently doesn't affect the touch or clarity substantially.

Presumably, all of these devices are pretty much readable in ideal conditions. Have you researched the usefulness of low glare screen protectors?

 

[Randall Garrett]

Added link for 3Qi screen comparison

JS43,

You are absolutely correct with the superiority of an e-Ink screen as found on a Kindle (especially the newer ones!) over a typical LCD when viewing things outdoors. It is also true that their measured (and mostly manual) refresh makes them not well suited for video. Almost all e-Ink screens are b/w or grayscale, so color is out for most intents an purposes. There are some exceptions, but you won't really find those exceptions in products you are likely to find easily. If you read books, a Kindle is the way to go and absolutely blows away a regular tablet - especially outdoors, where the brighter the light, the better it looks. Once you read a book on a Kindle Paperwhite, you'll never accept reading one on a LCD tablet again. Expect yet another improvement to the Kindle in about 4 - 6 months ;-)

The next best is a 3Qi screen - a special type of LCD that works almost as good outdoors in direct sun as a Kindle. I'm oversimplifying, but It goes from color inside to grayscale outdoors...
[Edit] Link to post showing 3Qi screen next to an iPad http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=1992648&postcount=13

Another great outdoor screen is a Mirasol screen by Qualcomm, but the development/manufacturing of screens over 2.5" has stalled. Expect to see a shipping example of this screen in an upcoming "SmartWatch." IF this ever goes to something larger, it will likely be well received.

When it comes to LCDs, the indoor video-watching crowd carries the most influence, so us folks who need to work outdoors have to suffer the fit and finish that make those screens look best. Early LCD screens had larger "air gaps" than more modern ones, so most premium LCD panels look better than the early ones. IPS-type screens help in that you can view them off-axis with little-to-no degradation in color/brightness. Unfortunately, most IPS screens with capacitive touch layers are glossy, which only adds to the difficulties in working outdoors. Some screens like the ones in the premium ASUS Transformers are about 50% brighter than an iPad, so it helps fight the sun, but they still can benefit from anti-glare screen films. The current "champ" in overall best LCD screens on a tablet-type device which is commonly available is the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 Tablet. It stomps an iPad on every measure. Still, in pure outdoor use, it is not near perfect.

FWIW, the reason why the MS Surface looks better in most "partial shade" and direct sun conditions (pictures in earlier post) is because they use a "direct bonded" screen. MS hardly ever gets credit for this in "the press" (they don't really test outdoors), and they don't really advertise it like they should. Expect to see more direct bonded screens in the upcoming "business class" devices.

Hence, in lieu of manufacturers coming out with really good outdoor screens, I have been recommending the DayVue screen protector film as the best aid. Actually, I prefer the WriteShield product (good guy owner and a little better performance) but the DayVue product is simply easier to get on more devices. I have some pictures posted in the thread linked below. Be sure to at least skim my words before looking at the pictures. The results shown may be better than what you get in person.
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=189054

It is important to note that the DayVue product does NOT have a "matte" type finish. The glare reduction is not from diffusing the refracted light. When you take it out of the packaging and even when you put it on, you'll swear they shipped you the wrong product - their clear version.

So, I would take a look at getting their product and spending the 10 minutes or so it takes to apply. Don't expect miracles (as might be expected from the pictures) but it does help mitigate the problem.

Hope this helps for now.


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[JSmith43]

Thanks for the in depth coverage!

I'll probably order the Dayview by NuShield, since it has an iPad mini size & I wouldn't have to cut it down.

$17 plus shipping, I assume.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Sorry for the delay in putting up the text on the VP11P and the MS Surface. I have simply been bogged down with other things - mainly trying to catch up with my regular duty items after being away from the office for so long earlier this month. The only time I seem to be able to squeeze in is when I am at home, and there are things I get caught up in here after moving.

I still plan to put up my thoughts but it is looking more and more like they will be of the "Summary" type - like the "Conclusion" section readers skip to in a more lengthy review. Maybe that is for the best anyway since my posts tend to be long and (ahem) ... "rambling" ;-) If anyone has any specific questions, please just let me know and I am happy to answer them.

I am, BTW, in possession of a few other recent devices and am simply waiting for one more (one I bought for an employee) to arrive before I shoot pictures and jot down my notes. These are more of the "2-in-1" and "Hybrid" device types. For me (and I suspect most here), initially these two types seem similar enough to lump together, but over the years I have found that there are enough differences that most actual users tend to purchase them based on distinct weighted items in their list of "hot buttons." Anyway, I'll break them out accordingly.

Also, for those who like to keep up with "what's next", my little "birdie" has confirmed to me ( with specs, regulatory clearance data, etc.) that we are soon to see another couple (?) of models (variations?) to a rather popular 2-in-1 that is on the shelves now. I should know enough in the next 10 days to work things into the list of "what to buy vs. wait for." Based on what I am told (and read), these models are not major things, just tweaks to existing models. More on that front as things develop. Of course, I won't break information embargo/NDA, but I can weave the data into the matrix and see how it affects your potential choices over the next (say) 6 months.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

OK, folks, I guess I can comment now on one of the devices I have been able to get an early look at. I have yet to get an official release from NDA, but since we're now seeing more stuff other than "coming soon" on their own site, it seems to me that I can at least confirm the reality of one of the reasons I recommended waiting until after the first of this year to get serious about the Bay Trail Tablets. In short, you're going to start seeing announcements for the better, more business-oriented models/configurations as opposed to the lesser "consumer type" offerings of late.

ONE of the more exciting devices is the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 8. They are still trickling info to the site, but for now, I can confirm that this is essentially the ThinkPad version of the Miix2 8 that I compared to the Dell Venue 8 Pro. It has very similar dimensions and weight (just 0.04" thicker and 0.18 lbs. heaver), features better construction (it is a ThinkPad, after all, LOL), has a different (higher) CPU and sports an 8.3" display @ 1920 x 1200 resolution. It will also be available in Wi-Fi-only and 3G/4G versions (the Miix 2 8 is Wi-Fi only at present.) Of course it will be available with an accidental drop protection Availability is quoted at the end of this month and retail price starts at $399 - essentially $100 more than the lesser Miix 2 8.

Raw specs on the differences between CPUs doesn't reveal much unless you really dig. Without getting geeky, essentially, the 3770 CPU is capable of handling 4 GB of RAM vs. the more pedestrial (and limiting) 2 GB found on the 3740 CPUs. Technically both chips support up to 4 GB, but the plan all along has been to just use the 2GB configurations in the consumer versions which came out first. I am positive you will see 2 GB versions available, and I cannot comment on the 4 GB versions at this time. What I can say, is that my loaner completely smoked the other, earlier 8" tablets when running identical programs. I prefer the better display - it is sharper, but really it was just the responsiveness and the availability of another feature I cannot mention today...

All this said, you can expect a few more business grade Bay Trail announcements this next week and my sources say that actual availability will be within 30 - 60 days, depending on manufacturer, your configuration, etc. One of the items that determines how soon you'll be able to get the upper end units is the pending release of Windows 8.1 64 bit (pro) for Bay Trail. My loaner was running 32 bit and should not (technically) be able to "see" the full memory, but evidently it does somewhat (theory 3 GB seen) and some of the un-optimized appraisal apps I ran on it were finally much snappier. Even the earlier 3740 Bay Trail devices with 2 GB were noticeably faster than last year's Clover Trail, but the next ones are even faster. It feels like it runs about 2/3-to-3/4 the speed of a middling Core i5 on regular apps (excepting upper end game stuff.)

Look for more info this week on other devices. I am unable to attend CES this year, but Iain is going and I hope he can peel himself away from meetings long enough to check on a few specific devices for us.

More as things develop. If you've been holding out, I don't believe you'll have much longer to wait. You should see a few really good choices before Spring

Oh, I have a tracking notice on my other ThinkPad - one I ordered for my own personal use, and it is due at Apex tomorrow. I should be able to give you feedback by this next weekend.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Mike Ault]

Thanks for the info Randall! I was afraid that you had given up on this thread. I know you probably have more entertaining things to occupy your time with than keeping us updated on the latest gear but we certainly appreciate your input!

 

[Randall Garrett]

Glad to help, Mike

No, I have not given up on this thread. It is true that I have been distracted for the past several weeks - End of Year stuff, then First of Year stuff, etc. Combined with some (minor) health issues last year, some required travel and some additional overhead of helping to get my mom settled in a new place, I've just simply been swamped, leaving not as much quality time as I'd like to be able to report on things.

Basically, I feel that the best is still yet to come with respect to devices best suited for appraisers. We had a run of consumer devices in Q43 that were a marked improvement over the previous generation, and the importance of those "Q4 devices" is that a few of them represent a pretty good choice for a measurable segment of appraisers IMHO. Some will leave folks wanting, but a few of them turn out to be pretty decent. That said, I still feel that the ones coming this quarter and next are the better fit. While not a perfect analogy, take the Miix 2 8 and the ThinkPad 8 as an example. Basically, another $100 (at retail) is the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus, between a Nissan and an Infinity, between a Honda and an Acura - the tweaked models contain those pertinent items that can make the difference between OK and really good.

I still feel that the biggest thing holding folks back is the lack of mobile design/optimizations in your core software packages. Knowing that this factor is a ways off, one can make things work by stepping up to a Core i5 type device, but those cost more, weigh more, have shorter battery life, etc. Once we start seeing availability of the 4 GB Bay Trail devices, however, folks will likely find that those devices are pretty compelling for mobile use - with or without major mobile optimizations. This is based on specs and has also been borne out by my informal observations using engineering sample devices. They won't replace a "real" tablet/laptop when it comes to "heavy lifting" but for most folks' real world mobile use, they do a really decent job at a fair price. Sure they cost a little more than the lower end "consumer" type devices, but they are a fair bit less expensive that devices we saw only a year ago.

I should be able to report on CES stuff sometime this week. Keep in mind, however, that CES is more about larger stuff (note that "C" is for "Consumer") and a lot of the "gadget" level stuff is revealed at MWC in February. Tablets sort of sit between CES and MWC, so we generally see announcements at CES on this stuff, and final details (perhaps confirmed availability/shipping) near MWC. This usually translates out to real world availability by spring, perhaps late winter.

Hope this helps. Gotta run - folks gathered in a meeting that I have to attend...


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Just some follow-up info on the Lenovo ThinkPad 8.

I believe that for many, this Tablet represents a sort of "sweet spot" companion device. The increased size, resolution and quality of the TP8 screen over the others is enough to justify the increase in price over the Miix 2 8 (which wasn't my favorite, anyway) but In informal testing with a sample unit, it also is superior to my previous fave, the Dell Venue 8 Pro, not to mention the superior build quality of the whole device. This is truly a "real ThinkPad" quality device. Here are a few links to some more info:

Short mini-review by a trusted reviewer, with short video:
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=45903

CES Floor show video showing performance and a few accessories:
Lenovo ThinkPad 8 hands-on - YouTube

Video by an official Lenovo rep at the private suite showing things in a more polished, organized fashion:
Lenovo CES 2014 ThinkPad 8 Preview (HD) - YouTube


I may have mentioned earlier that my sample unit had something that wasn't officially announced yet, but another blogger has mentioned it, so I guess I can comment now. Note that the ThinkPad 8 has the Bay Trail 3770, where most other small tablets have the 3740D. The TP8 only shows a description of 2 GB RAM and the ones on the floor reportedly had that, as well, but mine had 4 GB reported and I am hearing that they will offer up to 8 GB. I sincerely doubt 8 GB since the platform doesn't officially support same, but it does officially support 4. I can report that the extra 2GB or RAM certainly makes a big difference in the running "off the shelf" appraisal and other un-optimized apps that I tried. Even the 2 GB model was noticeably faster than the other 8" tablets, but the 4GB version just flies (for what it is.) I am (unofficially) told that the 4 GB versions will retail for between $25 and $50 more than otherwise similarly spec'ed versions. Availability is reportedly the end of this month, but I suspect it'll be more like mid-February or early March (?) and yes, I ordered mine within 2 minutes of playing with the sample. The main "failing" I found was just that the TP8 surprisingly is not available with a Wacom active digitizer :-( However, in today's touch-centric world, I suspect that many of you won't care about that. I guess we active pen people may just have to wait for the TPT3, rumored for summer (64-bit delay.) Oh, the TP8 also has an LED "flash" for the camera, something that hardly any of the other 8" tablets have - I find it strange that others aren't mentioning that.

I'll follow up on what looks to be another suitable 8" device which does have a Wacom active panel/pen once I can hold a sample in my hands. Friends and another employee saw and used a sample at CES, but I have yet to use it myself. I am told it won't be shipping until early Q2, so I'll wait until after Mobile World Congress in February to report details.

FWIW I ordered my TP8 with 4G because I have come to depend on it and I chose not to get my TP Yoga with 4G since it'll be so easy to "tether" to the TP8.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

I just picked up an ASUS t100. I hated previous versions of atom, and i'm not exactly "thrilled" with bay trail (current gen atom processors). that being said, 329 for a 32gb windows tablet with a keyboard dock is a great deal. i picked up the 64gb version from walmart for 379, and stuck a 64gb micro sd card in there. I wont be using this as a laptop and will be dedicated to field inspections only. bay trail is much faster than cedar trail, but i do not like the storage options and wish that tablet manufacturers would use msata drives (emmc is slow), and came with more than 2gb of ram. The resolution is not the highest, but i think this is the best bang for buck windows tablet out there imo. this has windows 8.1 not rt btw, and you can install a full copy of your appraisal software on it.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Yep, I mostly agree. The T100 is a helluva buy as long as folks realize that it is best used as a "companion device", not a full-on desktop/laptop replacement level device. My initial thoughts are covered here: http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=2422234&postcount=152 and I included a comparison picture here http://appraisersforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23876&d=1385581946 where it is the middle device on the far right.

As for the Bay Trail devices, if it has a "D" at the end, it is limited to 2 GB of RAM. If it is a 3740 or 3770 with no "D", it supports up to 4 GB of RAM. That said, most of the 3740 and 3770 (non-D) devices out today still only carry 2 GB of RAM soldered on (no upgrading as of today.) As I mentioned in the past, even the 2 GB Bay Trails are considerably faster than the previous Clover Trail devices I don't have sophisticated test equipment, but even the EMMC storage system subjectively feels faster (might just be the wider "pipe"?). That said, the 3770 4GB unit I ran was as much faster than the 2 GB 3740 as Bay Trail was vs. Clover Trail. Summarily, the better 3740 and 3770 2 GB units are adequate for use IMHO for most appraisal use today and the 4 GB 3770 feels almost as fast as a middling Core i5 on most apps. That's why I ordered the TP8 as a personal companion unit for my TPY. I still feel that MOST folks who are on the fence may want to wait things out until the Spring "busy season" to make a decision now. It's not far away and there will simply be more selection by then. We should finally have definite work on 64-bit compiles for Bay Trail and there should be a few more 4 GB Bay Trail devices out. They will undoubtedly cost more than the 2 GB versions, but more choices usually mean more competitive pricing That said, things are already pretty inexpensive, so folks who move sooner than later may end up actually putting things into service sooner than the "perpetual waiters."

I'm pretty impressed by the Q584, but it starts at nearly $900 and heads to $1,500+ really fast. I don't think it is the right device for most here (due to price, not specs) unless you are already comfortable spending more than you would on a Surface Pro. I probably won't be describing it much here except for using it as a reference in pictures, etc.

Hopefully kakarotto will give us some field use feedback on the T100 over the next few months. I think that real world appraisal use feedback, pro and con, is very useful for other appraisers!

Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/