Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[brbkr]

Thanks for all the good information, Randall. I'm a little confused though about your terminology: when you say Av6, it sound to me like you are talking about the desktop variety of Apex. Is it not your Nexus product that I would would want for fieldwork on a tablet?

 

[Randall Garrett]

Brian,

I don't mean to be so mysterious - it's mainly just me trying to stick to not talking about product that's not already out in the wild. As a former appraiser and user/consumer of appraisal products, I always hated when "marketing types" went on-line to hype up future (sometimes fictional) products, features, etc. So, some years ago I mandated a "No Vaporware" policy at Apex and pretty much quit showing salespeople anything that wasn't at least out in "field trial" form. IF I mention something of a future product, it is generally in relation to capabilities/features of current product(s), hardware, etc. That's the case here since I know that some folks need to know what hardware mates up best with which software. I've already mentioned Av6 in other posts (can't remember why, but it seemed pertinent at the time) so in this thread I am just giving more details as it relates to the most contemporary and near future tablets, etc.

Av5 is a desktop program. MobileSketch is our light weight "pad" type product line. Nexus was for the Tablet PC platform, specifically for those that had active digitizers. For Av5, we have a "MobileSketch Module" for it that exposes the necessary keypad type drawing controls so "slate" type users can use an existing, integrated product in the field. That said, the drawing paradigm is still based on the years of legacy (habitual?) usage for Apex users. While it can be used in a pinch, the drawing engine, robust as it is, is not well suited to the contempory devices and user expectations. I cringe whenever an Apex salesperson sells this to a user. Not because it doesn't work - it does - but because I know that there are better solutions to offer. To be fair, most folks who end up with the MobileSketch Module bolted onto Av5 don't really have a choice as their core platform (main application) isn't integrated or even technically capable of running the more modern core engine. By "more modern" I mean the engine we first released way back in 2006... (!)

I'm purposely being a little technical here due to legal and licensing type factors, but what most people think of as "Nexus" is really just the core DOT.NET drawing engine from 2006 (updated, of course) with a UI/GUI framework around it. Programmers and system architects understand this, but what most users see is just a product name - in this case "Nexus."

So, generally speaking, I now feel that this is the right time to sort of "merge" the products. We're finally starting to see some traction in "converged devices" - those that can run traditional desktop programs, mobile variants, etc. in more affordable devices with adequate, laudable envelopes. Windows 8 is a great enabler in this regard - we're seeing lightweight devices that range from "$500 all-day battery life pads" to $800 Core i5 devices that can rival most desktop systems from just a year ago. With the "consumer push" of Windows 8, we're starting to see examples available at regular brick & mortar or "big box" stores so folks can actually go fondle them, not having to order something solely on someone elses (good or bad) recommendation or (Heaven forbid) reading a review slanted by a blogger with no real working knowledge of what an appraiser's life (thus needs) is all about, from software requirements to working environment(s), etc. Of course, most of the devices I like are still not commonly available at (say) Best Buy, but at least we seem them on Amazon and other similar sources. The situation isn't perfect yet and that's why I post info & pictures on stuff I buy and test...

Anyway, without edging too far into the "future hype" category, Apex v6 marries the best of legacy Apex desktop programs, the Tablet PC Inking capability and MobileSketch's lightweight requirements. I'm using a revamped DOT.NET version of the core engine that Nexus used but added desktop capabilities that were not in Nexus. The product I am bound to release this month reguires Tablet PC capabilities but also desktop friendliness. So, enhanced engine + completely new UI/GUI Framework = new version, i.e. Av6. Some of the more esoteric capabilities in Av5 have not been implemented in Av6 yet, and we'll wait to see which ones people actually want in what order before I start adding them in. Some things in Av5 will not be brought over simply because they are not needed - those things were generally "work-around" functions that were added in over the years due to user requests. One example would be the "Auto-Trace" function that has been around since the DOS days. The engine used in the Nexus products did away with that requirement/work-around back in 2006. Still other things come from more modern products like MSA - see the MSA video (http://tinyurl.com/b9apxzz)for a hint of those type things. If your current Apex product(s) don't have those things, you can pretty much count on these being some of what I am hinting at...

So, "out of the box" you should be able to use Av6 just fine on your new tablet, but it'll also run in "desktop mode" on machines that do not have an active pen/screen and which rely on the traditional mouse/keyboard. Now, whether or not it'll directly integrate with your current "forms" program is another matter. Our Integration Partners would need to (first) decide they want/need to integrate. If they do, they would need to either provide us with an integration API or use a newer version of what we've supplied to them since (again) the DOS days, test it and then "certify" it for their user base. That is, it's up to users requesting it and them deciding to do it. As I indicated, ACI has been slow in recent years to deploy new versions of Apex. They could have used Nexus years ago, but for whatever reason, they seem to want to do anything BUT our products until users squawk or thier own efforts fail to produce the resilts they envisioned. In any case, they are currently under license and there would be nothing stopping them from adopting it, save their own agenda. Other "forms vendors" are quite the opposite as is already announced by them, so we'll see how that works out. All that said, I am not ready to release Av6 here in North America. Our current sprint is to deliver a custom version for an overseas market and I must deliver that first. Our next sprint is for North American requirements in the Fee Appraiser and Mass Appraiser markets. Specific items for "here" include further optimizations for low-powered devices and some new features I'm not ready to discuss.

Is this the info you were looking for?


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[brbkr]

Thank you for the very interesting insights you have provided. And yes, I think for the most part you have answered my question. While I am very happy with the Apex v4 I am using on my desktop, I could not see using that set of tools on a tablet in the field. Seeing your You Tube videos of Nexus in action convinced me that a tablet solution would work for me. What I am hearing from your last post is that that type of functionality will be a part of Av6 (i.e. nimble line/area editing, labeling, etc.). You have mentioned a number of times that ACI will not likely support integration of your newest products any time soon. But from what I'm imagining, running Apex as a stand-alone program would be advantageous; when I use my integrated version of Apex on my desktop, I am blocked from switching back to the form to make edits. That would be a problem in the field. I picture flipping between the form and sketch as I move around the property without having to constantly open and close the sketch. Later importing the sketch file into my desktop version of Apex does not sound like a problem. Again, thank you for your detailed responses. I am confident you are hard at work on a solution I will like.

 

[Randall Garrett]

Brian,

Yes, virtually everything with regard to drawing in Nexus carries into Av6, plus some new capabilities as well as some tweaks to the pen stuff to make it better.

Let me clarify a bit on Av6 and ACI - I did not say, nor mean to imply, that ACI will not integrate with Av6. What I was saying that they have historically been slow, for whatever reason, in recent years. And I get the impression that you want to start using something ASAP - a normal thing when you get a new device ;-) I really cannot/will not speculate on ACI - I can only state what I've observed in the recent past. Of course, your best solution would be for them to pick up Av6 and to be fair, I've not released it yet. Once we do, we'll see how things go. I do not personally interact with anyone at ACI - our CTO, tech support and (sometimes) Business Development folks interact, but not me. If they tell me something different than what I understand to be the case at present, I'll let you know.

As far as any "blocking", we would not do anything like that. We'd not disrupt any of Windows' built-in multi-tasking, app switching, or anything like that, so I don't see any problem whatsoever in what I read you to be asking. The only issue I foresee is mainly a development thing that falls into our camp to address - Av6 will have additional capabilities that earlier versions of Apex are "unaware" of. Additionally, I'm making changes to the file format for some of these additional things - some simple, some further reaching. Hence, to make it so that older versions can read the new files, we'll need to provide for a way to "demote" those files back to a format that earlier versions can understand. Hence, one might (simple example, here) find that the new Symbols in Av6 get "dumbed down" to an Av5-compatible state.

Some of the things coming for Av6 are the result of things we've already done for mobile markets outside of the US Fee Appraiser industry. If a feature is implemented in a custom version and it makes sense for Fee Appraisers, I'll expose it in the next version unless the development contract we were under had that classified as "private" or proprietary/exclusive. I rarely do that sort of thing in development contracts when it comes to features - that's usually reserved for integration methods or other "under the hood" type things that end users don't really care about For example, at the outset of Nexus, we had data collection in the product. Some Integration Partners (rightfully) feel that the methods, the "way" stuff is hooked into their main app is private and they do not want to open that up to their competitors. So, using this as an example, I'd not enter into a contract where one "main app" company had an "exculusive" on the ability of Apex/Nexus/MobileSketch/whatever to do field inspection data type stuff, but I would absolutely agree to not expose their private programming methods to anyone else. That's how it has always been and why we remain a "neutral party" among competitors in the markets we serve.

Anyway, hopefully once we actually release Av6 here, user demand will be enough for ACI to contact our Business Development folks and initiate a development discussion Perhaps sometime in March, I'll begin to show more of Av6 in a thread which revolves around some relevent feature, capability or other technical issue. I'll likely past in an old GUI or something just to mask some proprietary items, but it would show whatever is germane to the item at hand. No use giving the other folks another free shot at me with respect to features and functionality. Some of them are not too sly about "borrowing" things. I won't make that mistake again.


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

 

[Non Sequitur]

The Surface Pro is the real deal, I'm giving my iPad to a niece so she can play games.

Randall, in your opinion, what Apex version is best suited for the Win8 environment? I'm currently using Clickforms, but will likely change to Total 2013 if it lives up to the pre-release hype.

 

[Randall Garrett]

N-S,

"Best" can mean different things to different people/situations. Apex v5 runs well under Win 8 and is officially supported/integrated into ClickFORMS now, as well as ALMs upcoming TOTAL 2013 - see their official announcements on that. But, that is a desktop program, and I think you mean "Which version would work best on my new Surface Pro?", right?

If so, I'd say Apex v6, but we've not released it here in North America yet :-/. We will certainly integrate Av6 (see foregoing comments) with T2013 and be pleased to integrate it with ClickFORMS, too, if they are interested. From what I know today, I predict that the integration with T2013 will be further reaching. I can't go into those details at present, but will once the pertinent facts are made public. We try to be a neutral, 3rd Party supplier to all our Integration Partners and have no "favorites." Hence, I can only comment on the advantages I see in one product over another based on the technologies exposed to us via integration, etc. and how that allows Apex to do more to increase your productivity.

I observe that over the years ALM has been the leader when it comes to "forms software" pushing the envelope on mobile stuff. Historically, the others have given mobile technology mainly just lip service. I have further observed that effective use of mobile technology can lead to significant gains in efficiency, and I believe that we're finally in a place where hardware and software are both affordable and (more) effective, and that's a good thing for our profession. From what I see today, T2013 is designed primarily as a desktop program which better leverages modern software and is more mobile friendly. It is not, as I see it today, designed as a mobile "app" - it is a modern and robust version of their previous work horse.

I have no special, inside knowledge (just experience working with Beta versions for integration purposes) but given ALM's previous track record on mobility items, it would not surprise me to see them extend the product, further tune it to be even more mobile friendly. As a former appraiser and owner turned software developer, I can't help but be excited at what I see in the T2013 ads. But I also am a former purchaser/consumer of appraisal software, so I know to reserve judgement on products until I use them in a real world environment. And I'm not really qualified to do that anymore since I no longer own an appraisal shop, do real appraisals like you folks, etc. I think you may want to at least try it out once it is released. I'm sure you know that "converting" from one "forms package" to another can be fraught with issues, so only you can decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. Hopefully, BT will want to integrate with Av6 so you'll have more choices in that regard. Again, though, we've not released Av6 - not even to US "forms" companies, so even if they are interested, their waiting on us. I simply have to fulfill a delivery contract for a special, overseas customer first before I can turn my attentions back to the North American versions...

Sorry I don't have a good "right now" answer for you. I know you are excited about doing more with your Surface Pro (I like mine, too!), but if you can just hang on a little longer, I aim to make the wait worth it


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

personally i believe the surface pro leaves a lot left to be desired. atom is the way to go for power consumption, but in my previous experience the atom processors were slow as hell. i'm curious to see how the bay trail processors perform (quad core atoms). i'm surprised that i have yet to see a 128gb atom tablet, those most i've seen is 64gb. i dont know about you, but i dont want to have capacity anxiety because manufacturers are not including larger capacity drives. i'm also interest in the razer edge. now this is going to be a gaming tablet. i know most of us here are not gamers. i like this tablet because the hd options, as well as a "TV" dock with hdmi and usb ports. i see this as completely replacing my desktop as i can use the tablet in the field, and have the dock hooked up to my monitor and keyboard and mouse. the bad thing with the razer edge again is the battery life. it also has a lower resolution screen than the surface pro. Personally, i am waiting for second get win8 pro tablets to come out (which we'll probably see at the end of the year along with the intel bay trail processors). also, arm is going to be releasing x64 architecture soon, so i dont know how that will go against intel. just rambling on at this point.

 

[Randall Garrett]

FWIW, today's Atom Z2760 ("Clover Trail") used in the recently shipping Win 8 tablets is far, far better than the older Atom CPUs commonly associated with "net books" of yore. All in all, we find them to perform admirably for all but "heavy lifting." We're finding 8 - 10 hours real world battery life, which is pretty amazing when running a full OS on a 1.25 lb. - 1.5 lb. device. If you step up to a current gen core i5 CPU as found on a MS Surface Pro and others, you add an average of about 0.5 lb. and can expect about 4.5 - 6 hours of real world battery life. The next iteration of Clover Trail (Clover Trail+) will increase the performance measurably with a slight increase in performance. I was given a demo of an Intel reference design tablet and after exerting some persuasion, was able to run a well-known appraisal package on it side-by-side with two of my retail, shipping "regular" Clover Trail tablets. The tests were unscientific and brief, but I could tell a difference. Not huge, just noticeable. My gut (and background/experience) tells we that appraisers will see more gain from software developers optimizing their code than just from waiting on CT+ (Summer?). I expect that's about the time meaningful code optimizations would be realistically available. I further expect that we may not see a lot of CT+ devices from the recommended device manufacturers since the next real chip generations are due by EOY 2013. These next gen chips are commonly known as Bay Trail (Atom) and Haswell (Core i5/Core i7.) Bay trail brings more RAM and a bigger pipe for execution along with other more esoteric enhancements. Haswell brings a much more energy efficient Core i5 & Core i7 chip as well as the very desirable "Connected Standby" that CT already supports. Net effect is that both are better, faster, but the gap narrows somewhat. I expect that the availability of Bay Trail systems will mark the beginning of a sweet spot for appraiser type systems. Some will still want Haswell-based devices, the conversational difference being BT will be for those who want a more mobile "companion" device and Haswell for those who want something capable of being a desktop replacement class device, just in a Tablet or Ultrabook form factor..

[Edit] One might say that a CT system is a mobile device than can run big stuff in a pinch (while mobile) and a Core i5 system will run just about anything you throw at it (except demanding games, etc.) and still be able to go mobile, albeit with shorter battery life. Again, BT and Haswell will narrow that gap.

FWIW, I finally brought home examples of three (now) available CT Tablets - the Dell Latitude 10, HP ElitePad 900 and the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2. I'll take some comparison shots and post them here along with some comparative commentary. Pictures are a poor substitute for examining them for yourselves, but I will try to share what I can in my limited free time. I did not bring my Surface Pro home with me because I had to lend it out to Robert who is leaving to teach a Mobile Technology course in my stead, but I'll try to put all my current devices together when he gets back. I think I may need to do this big mobile roundup thing in another venue where I can host more & better pictures, video and do better Q & A.

I hope that some of the foregoing helps folks in making decisions which are best for them!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Tablet mini-review - Indoor shots

Below I have uploaded three pictures so you can get a sense of relative size between

The Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2,
The HP ElitePad 900,
The Dell Latitude 10, and
The Apple iPad with Retina Display (aka “iPad 4”)
​

I’m not covering “ruggedized” tablets like those from Motion Computing, Panasonic, etc. as these are outside of the “sub-$1,000” range. If there is sufficient demand on those, I can respond to those with these needs if you send me a PM or something.

• The first shot was taken diagonally in an attempt to demonstrate relative thickness. The photos are less demonstrative than I had hoped - my poor photography skills and lack of proper lighting doesn’t really reveal much except that they are all thin. You can look up the specs (see "In hand" post below) but the Lenovo and the HP feel pretty similar except for surface finish. The Dell is a little thicker, probably due to the fact that it uniquely has a removable battery on the back side. I shot this indoors on my Breakfast table, intending to also show the screen treatments (bright sunlight glaring in from outdoors), but this was also less demonstrative as I had intended. The Lenovo, Dell and iPad all have glossy screens whereas the HP has a semi-matte finish.
  
  
• The second shot is from almost straight overhead showing the different aspect ratios. The Lenovo and Dell are both 16:9 aspect ratio devices, the HP is 16:10 and the iPad is 16:12 (commonly referred to as 4:3.)
  
  
• The third picture shows the HP ElitePad 900 with the optional “sleeve.” This particular sleeve not only adds additional ports and raised the rating for ruggedness, but can also hold an additional battery. Sharp eyes can see the 4 Phillips Head screws holding in the battery. The sleeve is also available without the battery if you just want to go with the extra protection and ports. The extra battery obviously adds weight, so that would be my recommendation unless you’re routinely away from a simple car charger for more than 8 or 9 hours at a time. The extra “girth” of the sleeve does not make it unpleasant to hold – it actually improves it IMHO. The HP and the iPad are the only two devices shown which have slick metal backs (boo!) – the other two have a “soft grip” treatment similar to rubber which provides better grip. The HP sleeve, optional desk dock, etc. all have the same “grippy” finish. I’m going to mount a strap to my sleeve unless HP comes out with one…

More to follow...


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Randall Garrett]

Tablet mini-review - Outdoor shots

The next set of three pictures are outdoor shots in various lighting conditions ranging from Full/direct “South Texas” sun to partial shade (trees overhead) to Complete Shade (under the eaves or porch/patio.) I have 10’ deep wrap-around patio/decks, so the shade is more complete than most typical inspection scenarios. Hence, I put the devices on the deck railing to get them into the brightest areas. It was also the most convenient spot to perch the tablets, LOL… I purposely chose the most challenging part of the day with respect to the brightness of the sun in my location.

• The first shot shows an (almost) worst case scenario – dark backgrounds cause a “mirror effect” on LCD panels. I did a “split screen” in both Full/Direct sun and Complete Shade. I put the HP least advantageous location (the middle) because it has the semi-matte screen. You can clearly see that the HP look different in both scenarios. The HP’s screen is slightly brighter than the other two, but in practice – walking around the house – some folks may prefer the Lenovo or Dell as their blacks seem deeper, thus having the effect of more contrast. This will largely be dependent on your personal preferences and is likely influenced by your own typical ambient light conditions. The difference(s) are not great, so other items like how they feel, available accessories, drop protection warranties, etc. may be more important factors in your purchase decision.
  
  
• The second shot is Full/Direct sun with a more typical background. I chose Apex v5 to load up since many of you have this program and can recognize some factors demonstrated by the different resolutions between the 16:9 and 16:10 devices. This is also a more typical type background having some white and some colors. I specifically chose our more “pastel” blue color scheme as we do not recommend this for bright environments. I also made sure that the Ribbon Bar was fully exposed, further compromising the drawing experience. The first thing most will notice is that the 1,280 x 800 screen on the HP (vs. the 1,366 x 768 on the Lenovo and Dell) makes everything bigger. Some (like me) prefer things to be a little bigger – easier to see and interact with. Some have younger, fresher eyes and don’t mind things a little tighter. Also note that I’m running the tablet with the task bar showing – not recommended on Win 8 Tablets, especially when tromping around a house. It isn’t needed – there are better, more efficient ways to “task switch” on Win 8 tablets – and it just further decreases your working space. Can you tell I’m not a salesman? LOL. Marketing types show the best case scenarios – I choose the worst.
  
  
• The Third shot is identical to the previous one except it is in Partial Shade. I believe that this best demonstrates a typical “average ambient lighting condition” for most and it is probably the best one for most of you to use to get a feel for how these three devices might look in your day-to-day inspection scenarios. It is not a well-balanced or “fair” shot, though - the amount of shade goes from more to less, left to right. Thus the Dell was at a disadvantage. The HP is clearly brighter, but again, that does not mean it is the best overall – they all performed well for not having anti-glare treatments and each person has their own preferences with regard to brightness, resolution, contrast, overall “feel”, etc.

Final set for today on the way...


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/