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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

Hi Folks,

Hope all of you are doing well!
Just a quick update from one of my "Self-quarantine" bunkers ;-)

I've been getting a lot of messages via various formats/venues, so I thought it most would be quicker to reply via forums, etc. while also disseminating the same info to others who might be interested but had not written.. For those who wrote me via email, PM and the like, please don't be offended that I've not written you back individually as has been my custom in the past.

It seems that the Surface Go in almost all variants is now completely out of stock. I've seen a few resellers who have marked up their few remaining models by quite a bit, but I wouldn't bother with them. First off, when a retailer tries to gouge you, that really torques me off - very bad form! Second, and probably more important in the long run, the models which seem to be actually available aren't the ones I recommend for our users anyway. Finally, while I cannot comment publicly about NDA type info, it should be obvious WHY they are out of stock. My observation is that (if reliable public sources are to be believed), "the plan" was to already have made an announcement about a (rumored) Surface Go successor, but this horrible pandemic situation really upended so many plans that were already in motion.

Once I have concrete info which can be shared, I will do so. From recent experience, my gut tells me that it'll likely be a post from some other source who has violated the info embargo. I sometimes see inaccurate info based on conjecture and a desire to be credited with being the first to "break" a story, but as in the past, I won't knowingly push info unless it is either from an official source, or at least from someone known to me who is very reliable. That said, I would not be surprised to see something come down the pike in the next few weeks.

Hope this helps for now!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/
 
Meant to update you earlier. Just being (relatively, LOL) brief due to a busy day for me here and only tidbits to offer. Mainly, I'm getting confirmation from multiple independent sources which mostly back up what the more responsible public tech sites are reporting with regard to the next gen Surface Go (and Surface Book for those interested in that device.) Basically, what it boils down to is that the Surface Go will remain the same overall size but the screen size will increase a little, screen resolution will have a corresponding increase, the internals will get a bump in performance, etc. Keeping the device the same physical measurements allows for using the "old" keyboard cover, etc. You'll still have a choice of the Pentium "Gold" but it looks to have a mild performance bump. The upper end model will have a Core i3 CPU. There is minor disagreement among sources as to the max total storage space with some saying 128GB while others say 256GB. The larger screen means slightly smaller bezels but I imagine the bottom bezel size will remain the same to accommodate the nifty tilt attachment thing for the keyboard. Almost all sources are confirming that there will be a 4G LTE option (will it be 5G? - probably not IMHO, but that does not matter to me) but we don't have confirmation/agreement on whether it will be on one CPU or both. Would love to see the availability of the superior pen from the SPX, and of course, the built-in "pen well" feature from that keyboard come into play at some point. I don't have any word on additional battery capacity, but that is not proving to be a big item with existing users ATM. Oh, and most sources agree that the new one will have a starting retail of $399 which pretty much matches the previous version's base price. No word on the Core i3 model nor 4G LTE module.

Once I know more, I will share pertinent details ASAP. I aim to be able to link to some performance videos, as well. I'm planning on showing the devices doing the things most people ask about, so I'll show different versions of sketching - app, legacy application, web sketching on modern browser, and if I get written permission, some integrated field inspection software. If there is sufficient interest, I can also add in some legacy app usage but I am sort of skeptical that I'll get written permission to show someone else's "traditional bloated desktop" software. Maybe I can blur it out sufficiently (?) but still, we all know that mostly, these applications tend to slow down with "age", which is primarily (and understandably) due to larger database/files, WinRot, etc., so I don't know how much good it would do to try and simulate your particular situation. In any case, I aim to build in some performance metrics where allowable so you can see the numbers vs. relying solely on the videos for a "seat of the pants" metrics.

Hope this helps for now!

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Just a quick FYI thing...

The MS Surface Book 3 has officially passed through the FCC, further bolstering the likelihood of a May/June release*. Most sources also believe we will see the next gen Surface Go released close to then as well. No big publicly announced specs as of yet, but from what IS publicly viewable, the items I mentioned earlier are almost certain. Things like high end graphics cards (i.e. Nvidia Quadro) in the SB3 look probable, but that sort of thing is probably not very important for this particular audience. Again, I will update more fully once I have confirmed, valid information to share and I'll outline the pertinent items along with a short (for me, LOL) discourse on WHY those items may matter, etc.

Hope this helps!

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

[Edit] * = Announcements/reveals are expected May 19 - 20, with actual availability/delivery in June (?)

/end/
 
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I'm still not in receipt of any confirmed* specs to report on the upcoming refresh of the MS Surface Go, but I ran across the video linked below which IMHO is both accurate and informative - it does a good job of illustrating the Surface Go as it existed in 08/2018. If you are interested in this topic, I recommend watching the video at your leisure. As usual, I've added some background commentary below if you care to see why I am linking this video ;-) *[Edit] - There are some leaked specs & price ranges which I believe to be accurate, but I'll wait until I have official confirmation on that stuff. Suffice it to say that from what I already know and what is being reported to me by reliable sources, the info below in valid.

The reason I feel that this video is relevant today is that it was part of a more recent article on "Chromebook alternatives in 2020" - i.e. what options do you have if you want/need an inexpensive mobile device for work items and the inevitable personal communications aspect. There are a ton of sources of info for Chromebooks, Android and iOS tablets as (cheap?) alternatives for work, pleasure, school, etc., but they seem to many times point to either massively more expensive Windows laptops/tablets or the really crappy ones as they build their case for why the item they are writing about is a better solution. Fair enough - if an author wants to build their case, that's great but many times, out of ignorance or bias, they may be doing more of an "apples-to-oranges" comparison. Sometimes - not always ;-) Further, I believe that in the coming months, you are likely to see more and more "apps" introduced to the market which are designed to run in more mobile-friendly environments - specifically apps meant to run in a browser. Please note that "running in a browser" does not mean it has to be "in the cloud"... A modern browser-based app can (and many times does) work when not connected to an external source, whether it is Wi-Fi or cellular. This is nothing new, really - we (and others) already do this sort of thing with our other (non-fee appraiser) products since it is required to be usable in remote locations, etc. Of course, the "app" has to be written to not crap out when it cannot "connect" - I think this is an obvious thing, right? So, if you find yourself entering into, or already dealing with this situation, you may be looking at a new device or replacing your old device with something which fits your situation better.

A lot of our users simply start looking at a newer/better iPad because that's what they are currently must use, prefer using or whatever. That's fine - I believe one should consider "familiarity" as an important factor for making a decision - much as you would/should other factors such as price, reliability and app availability, etc. So, per my comment in the foregoing paragraph, LOL, I'm building a case for why one might want to get something like the Surface Go instead of a Chromebook, iPad, Android tablet, or whatever. FWIW, I am pretty sure that most readers here might believe that I am biased toward Windows devices. In my "defense", I'll point out that this is a "Windows Tablets For Fieldwork" thread, so that's what I concentrate on here :) I try to mention other devices/environments when relating them to what a Windows tablet can do, what they cost, which ones we have user feedback on, etc. Personally, I use Windows tablets myself in both personal use and business use as my primary mobile devices but I also own and use iPads and Android tablets (but not any Chromebooks.)

The majority of my business use case scenarios have me using & testing our own software via Windows devices. Other people at Apex likely use other devices for testing to help round things out. Most readers here only know of our "Full Windows" software, but we have made iOS and Android software in the past. Today, we do "Full Windows programs", a Windows "Store" app, as well as browser-based software, which means it runs on iPads, Android tablets and (as far as I know), there is no reason it would not run on a Chromebook. (I have not tested this myself since I've not gotten sufficient call for that to invest in one. Maybe I will soon, I dunno...) Most of you aren't aware of our web apps because they are deployed through other companies and may even have a different name splashed across the screen when launched/invoked. That is, we don't sell it directly to end users, though some readers may participate in "beta" releases from time to time for testing/validation purposes. I only mention that for "context" purposes as it relates to how/why I would also test other devices/OS environments using regular "daily app" stuff as well as things I know very intimately since this thread is about Windows devices and not our software (!)

So, all that being said, I believe that IF you are a person who is considering the purchase of a device to use in the field, even the (recommended model of the) existing Surface Go is a viable device some of you should consider. One of the primary reasons is that in addition to running modern browsers, it can run Windows "apps" as well as "Full Windows" programs like your forms software if you want to. Without some sort of internet connection and some "remote" software, you cannot easily/routinely run Windows stuff, especially specific appraisal software on an iPad, Android table or Chromebook (unless you are a super geek and are willing to do a lot of fidgeting, which is not the point of all of this anyway.)

Now, with respect to existing vs. likely new models, as I've written before, we are most likely going to see an improved model introduced later this month. Additionally, since the current unit is almost impossible to find in the recommended configuration (i.e. 8 GB/128GB with or without 4G LTE), my thought is that you'd be better off making a purchase after the new model is shipping. Normally, when an improved model is introduced, I have found that IF the previous model was "good enough" for your intended purposes, you sort of get a "best of both worlds" choice - get the previous model at a discount or pay about the same price as the "old" model for the new one. In the case of the likely upcoming improved Surface Go, there may be a slight revision to this thought - wait for the discounted "refurb" units (with warranties!) to be available from reliable sources or order the new one for the increased performance. As before, we are likely to see that the new model will be priced very nearly the same price as the previous model. That said, I believe there will be a model with a fairly significant CPU/GPU bump relative to the previous "top of the line" ($549) model and as such there would not be a direct comparison in that category.

Again, please note that I only recommend the 8GB RAM model with 128 GB SSD storage for most appraisers! Unless you are doing only "app" stuff, email, and other personal stuff, you will likely find the model with 4GB RAM and much slower eMMC storage to be inadequate for (how I observe) most of you actually use a tablet. That is, most disappointment comes when you try to run this $350 device like a regular laptop. The software most appraisers run tends not to be well optimized for low-end spec machines, so it'll chug along and be frustrating. It'll work well enough for light duty tasks, but once you pull up (say) your forms software, it is going to quickly get overloaded. It'll run, mind you, but you'll experience delays which can really hinder your efficiency. Part of the issue is the amount of RAM and another significant issue is the limited amount and type of storage in the low end model. Generally speaking, when a Windows device is running an unoptimized ("legacy") program, if the available RAM close to being fully consumed, the device tries to use storage for a sort of "virtual RAM" so you can at least continue, albeit much slower. The lower end Surface Go uses eMMC type memory which is much slower than a real SSD, which is of course itself much slower than actual RAM. In other words, you really notice it. Those of you who had earlier Windows Tablets have complained about this aspect in the past. I hear from a lot of early adopters of the regular Surface 3 devices about performance issues. Many times they seem to believe that the much less expensive Surface Go must be even slower. This is not the case - even the the current 8GB RAM/128GB SSD Surface Go beats the pants off a Surface 3 when it comes to performance (and, of course, price!) You'll hear the reviewer in the linked video mention that from time to time, and it echoes what we have found.

So, after all of my droning on and on (surprise), I hope you find this a helpful video. Again if you are interested in this, I believe it is worth your time to watch whatever portion that seems most relevant to YOUR interests.
Video link:


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/
 
Last edited:
Good morning. I am being a bit more concise this morning as we have an area-wide (Internet) fiber outage at my current location today and I'm having to use my trusty Surface Pro X ("SPX") as a hotspot to get to a cellular connection. (This is a fringe case example of why I ALWAYS get my devices with the cellular connection option. I suspect most you can appreciate this, but your MAIN use for this would be fieldwork, etc.)

In any case, I want to share the Official info from MS regarding the Surface Go 2 ("SG2") with you ASAP. There is also new official info on the Surface Book 3, surface Docks, some mouse & keyboard combos, headphones/earbuds, etc. etc. etc. I'll not cover those items, except peripherally unless I have sufficient requests to do so.

Summarily, the SG2 raises the bar in a few areas and the changes range from "minor refresh" to "fairly significant" depending on your own perspective(s.) Since I still strongly recommend the devices with the 4G LTE option for most readers here, the change is somewhat more significant, but not necessarily major. The overall size, etc. stays the same and if any of you have the optional pen, keyboard, cases, etc., I am told that they are still usable with the new models. I will verify that when my new device arrives. All models get a slightly larger screen (up from 10" to 10.5") which means smaller bezels. The screen resolution has increased as well and the PPI (density) has gone up, too. (Wasn't necessary IMHO, but is welcomed.) They have also increased the battery size in some/most/all (?) models. Pricing for the base models remains the same, starting at $399 so, as predicted, it is technically a better device at the same price as last year's model (larger/higher resolution screen, bigger battery, slight spec bump on the CPU, etc.) and goes up to $549 for the 8 GB, 128 GB SSD model since I do not recommend the base model with only 4GB RAM and 64GB of eMMC storage. While the $549 model will likely outperform last yea's upper end model, I suggest that most of you should be more focused is on the new upper end model with a Core m3 with 8GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. This model starts off at $629. The 4G LTE model is $729 - an extra $100. FWIW, I have ordered this model for 2 of our staff, but I ordered the "Business SKU" model for myself which runs $50 more (OS upgrade, not needed by most IMHO) and I opted for the larger 256 GB SSD since this will likely replace my SPX whenever I am traveling light (i.e. without my laptop.) MS charges an extra $100 for the extra 128 GB of storage. This is high IMHO and I don't recommend this option for most.

This post has already gone beyond what I had anticipated (surprise, LOL) so I am linking to the best source of info that I see this morning. As always, I will continue to update you with the info I find to be germane to this thread and will try to respond with items requested by readers, as well.


Hope this info helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Some early hands-on with the m3 variant of the SG2. Turns out that in basic operations, the SG2 with Core m3 definitely smokes the older model, is measurably faster than my SPX and is not all that far behind the performance of the SP6 with core i5. I was expecting a measurable improvement from the OG model, but not quite this much. I will, of course, reserve judgement until I get a chance to use it for a bit.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Looks like one can order the SG2 via Amazon and Best Buy now., although I cannot seem to be able to configure the Corem3 model without 4GLTE ATM. Other than that, these are the same prices as you'll find at the MS Store. I almost always order from the MS Store via my Microsoft account/link out of convenience. I prefer the $99 Microsoft Complete with Accidental Damage Coverage policy over the 3rd Party policies from Amazon and Best Buy, but that is a personal preference. I'm listing all three sources for your convenience. I already have shipping confirmation from MS, but Best Buy and Amazon are suggesting orders from them will arrive on Wednesday of this week, so they are all in the same ball park in that regard. I should have some preliminary feedback early next week and I will also verify that cases, keyboards, etc. from the previous models work as suggested and I will link to any important accessories I run across, too.

Amazon:

Best Buy:
Microsoft Store: - just select the desired model, accessories, etc.:
[Edit] The only other new MS stuff I am testing this week are the new version of the Surface Headphones. I have been using Bose, Sony and Plantronics wired/wireless headphones, all with ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) in order to see which works best with our VOIP phones, cell phones and our Skype & MS Teams videoconferencing.. So far, I haven't found the "perfect" set that I would recommend for our staff working remote should use. Nevertheless, I can report on my findings toward the end of the month is anyone wants me to...

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Last edited:
Question... What are the various strengths and weaknesses of Android vs Windows vs Apple tablets? Is there such a thing as Linux tablets... I see ads for Microsoft Azure Linux...what exactly is that? Is it basically cloud based and how do you interface with it. On your desktop? Laptop? Phone? Tablet?
 
Hi TLS,

Even though I tried, my reply is not nearly as concise as I would like for it to be since this is a thread specifically about “Windows Tablets For Fieldwork.” I believe your overall questions are relevant and I think there are others who might be asking a similar sort of question as they consider how a particular tablet /OS might affect their choice of the best tablet for their particular scenario. If I've not answered your question(s) sufficiently, please PM me and I can go into more specific detail, accordingly. Warning: You may want to capture the text in case you are having trouble with insomnia, though ;-)

Please, folks, help me keep this thread on topic. If you agree/disagree on my thoughts below, and want to reply/comment on them as it relates to Windows Tablets, that’s fine, but if feel that you need to debate things or you want to sway someone toward your own devices of choice, start a thread and let’s move it there :-)

I believe that most tech people would tell you that the top advantages of an iOS device (Apple iPad or iPhone) are the plethora of apps and the generally high level of build quality of Apple products, but their products are generally pricey. For most readers here, one downside of iOS devices is that they do not have a “file system” per se that most users can interface with like they are used to on their traditional Windows desktop systems. iOS apps are only available via the Apple “App Store” but they are “curated” by Apple and are generally perceived as “safe.”

Android devices also have a plethora of apps and, while some devices may arguably exhibit somewhat higher or lower build quality than an iOS device, there are a lot of lesser quality devices out there so “buyer beware” is not bad advice IMHO. Though you may need to load an app, Android devices expose the traditional “file system” to the user so you can browse for a file to do what you want with it (be it smart of perilous, LOL.) Apps for Android are obtained through various sources, but by far the most common is the Google/Alphabet “Play Store.” Apps there are advertised as being curated, but some feel that they are not as safe as apps from the Apple “App Store.” Android devices also allow one to change an setting to purposely allow apps to be loaded directly – i.e. download the installer file and run it. Hence, they appeal to geeks. Note that this ability is not generally recommended due to the known prevalence of bad actors out there who delight in infecting your device for nefarious reasons.

The main “pro” of Windows Tablets are that they CAN run traditional Windows Applications and the main “con” is the paucity of Windows “apps.” Additionally, there are only a handful of device manufacturers who produce Windows Tablets. Windows Tablets tend to be either really high quality or very low quality due to manufacturer support. Microsoft devices are top quality and those from generally recognized names (Samsung, Lenovo, HP etc.) are generally high quality as well, but note that the lower priced models are generally not so great IMHO. One area of distinction for Windows Tablets is that some models are genuinely at the level of being capable “desktop replacement” devices. These devices are understandably larger heavier and more costly and not what I find to be the best solution for MOST readers here (my personal opinion, YMMV.) SOME devices are rated for harsh environments, something that is essentially unique except for Panasonic Android tablets. Windows “apps” are obtained from the “Microsoft Store.” Windows 10 users generally access the MS Store via the menu item on their devices, but you can also do this from their web site. Windows Store apps can also be run from a traditional desktop, laptop, etc. Some apps can also be run from a game console – not something many here would care about.

With respect to most readers here, iOS and Android tablets seem to be the most popular since their residential software providers have apps for their respective operating systems. I am unaware of anyone except Apex who makes anything for real estate appraisers here in North America (as opposed to other markets and/or countries) which is tailored for Windows tablets, and we no longer publish iOS apps or Android apps. The lack of support from these software companies is a definite negative for the use of Windows Tablets at this time for appraisers who rely on an “app” for field work. That said, I believe we are at the end of this era – not because of a sudden “awakening” (LOL) of these software companies, but because most companies that I am aware of (and I am not exactly ignorant in this area, LOL) are either actively working on, or have already released browser-based products for their wares. As noted in prior threads, being “browser based” does not necessarily mean that thing run “in the cloud”, though some (most?) products advertise this capability. The rapid adoption of browser-based products is a driving force of why we quit doing “apps” for specific Operating Systems and concentrated on browser-based products. I believe most readers here will be moving to browser based “apps” pretty soon. It is already “a thing” in other market spaces we serve today and all factors point to it being the norm here, too. As I have “mentioned” before (LOL), the move to browser-based appraisal software is one of the main reasons I believe that more readers here may find that a Windows Tablet will be a better solution to their appraisal-related field activities than in the recent past. That is, they can run their browser-based apps as well as their traditional desktop software on the same device. The main decision point will be how much “oomph” do they really need in their tablet for the traditional applications as those things will largely drive those decisions. Obviously, items like a larger screen, a more powerful CPU/GPU, more local storage, etc. will drive up the price and I believe one should carefully consider whether or not they really need a monster device when doing actual inspection activities. FWIW, MOST of our customers (in other markets which are valuation-related) find that a “companion device” offers the best bang for the buck, even if that means a powerful laptop and small tablet – i.e. you only use the small tablet while traversing the subject, etc. YMMV.

I’ll not go into phones at this time because that is largely a matter of personal taste (and aging eyes?), etc. Some people have been able to adjust to using a phone for inspections, etc., and yay for them! Many just find that the screen is too small on their phones and moving up to a “phablet” makes their phone too bulky for their taste. FWIW, I have noted that developing browser-based things generally results in less flexibility in designing the GUI on the app. Hence, the developer quickly runs out of screen area and this can really affect how “friendly” the “app” is to the user. Simply speaking, the larger the screen, the easier it is to incorporate GUI and workflow-related items which may have proven to be effective/popular with end users over time. Thus, we are all constantly looking for that “Goldilocks” device with just the right combination of things which appeal the most to each of us…

Finally, with regard to Linux tablets, I am not aware of any “mainstream” tablets which ship with Linux pre-installed. For the most part, users who enjoy Linux will install it (or variants) onto their device themselves. MS Azure is really a “server/back end” thing and not something that a typical end user would/should do on a tablet. Generically, think of Azure as the MS competitor to Amazon’s AWS. Most end users who would interface with Azure or AWS on a server would do it through a browser on their device, just as you are doing now with this site or when you buy something off the Amazon Web site, etc. If you want more pro/con on Linus on your personal device(s) I would ask the same Linux question in a general thread and I’m pretty sure that the well-known Linux aficionados will jump in and help you in any way you might want.

Well, as usual, this ended up being longer than I had intended, but I hope it helps!



-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

/end/
 
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