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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

Panasonic Android
I remember Panasonic made a rugged laptop which was often used in the oilfields. I know a guy who used to sell high tech all weather monitors for outdoor and industrial uses - harsh environments. I want to say the company was out of Switzerland that he worked for. Very good explanation...appreciate it.
 
Another good review/article on the SG2, this time with some early "hands on" viewpoints, a video of the front camera (for video conferencing these days)) as well as a rear camera sample shot and various other illustrative items.
FWIW, I agree almost 100% with the author's findings except that I believe putting the two CPU comments in the "Cons" column is misleading. Basically, the authors says that the Pentium Gold CPU is disappointing and that the price went up for the model you should get. Last year's Pentium Gold was adequate for what the device was intended for and my recommendation was to get the one with the SSD and more RAM to make it fit your likely use scenario better. So, the new model with the very slight spec bump to the Pentium Gold CPU is superior across the board to the old model and the price did not go up (unless the old, discontinued model is on sale, etc.) This is in line with what I have observed for years in most new models - the new one is likely better at the same price wile the last year's model drops down while supplies last. Again, the Pentium Gold model will run your full windows software suites - it just won't speed through things and it can get bogged down if you try to use it like a beefy laptop, not to mention your desktop beast. So the new model with 8 GB RAM, 128GB SSD is a better solution than last years model. What has changed this year is that 3rd model with the upgraded CPU and the difference in price is $80. I find that the performance gain is well worth the upcharge. The Core m3 is still an energy-sipping mobile chip, so it's not exactly considered "beefy", but it will give you just that much more oomph to let you do more or conversely be less restrictive when you are pushing the limits of the design envelope. Unfortunately, you cannot get this years Pentium Gold version with 4G lTE, so the extra $80 is required to go that route. Again, I find it to be a worthwhile upgrade... Another thing not pointed out much is that the regular black keyboard is not only $30 less, but it is equally functional and arguably the better choice due to the material.

Article link: https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-go-2-review

Hope this helps.

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Thanks for posting nauthead! Glad to see some input from others here. I was going to post that link and add my comments, but I just got tied up on some development items going on this week. I'll try to keep my points on Lisa's article concise, but let me know if you have any questions in the interim. I am using my SG2 daily via Wi-Fi, but I have not switched over my 4G LTE connection from my other tablet, so I can't really comment on that aspect yet (not expecting any measurable change, though.) I am trying to coordinate with Brian so we can do some collaborative tests which will allow us to compare & contrast on items which illustrate meaningful performance differences.

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
I remember Panasonic made a rugged laptop which was often used in the oilfields. I know a guy who used to sell high tech all weather monitors for outdoor and industrial uses - harsh environments. I want to say the company was out of Switzerland that he worked for. Very good explanation...appreciate it.
Hey, TLS - I have some (preliminary) breaking news on some Linux-related things, and I wanted to let you know that I will be investigating this further in conjunction with the release of our cross-platform products for mass appraisal customers. I'll get back with you as soon as I have something germane to your questions.

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
Another short article from a mobile professional saying why he likes the Surface Go 2. I mostly agree with him, though my own take on one of his statements may need some explanation (below)... Note that the author says " The Surface Go 2 isn't a device you'd buy as a strict tablet, because Windows isn't particularly good on tablets. You'd be better served buying an iPad for that." To his credit, he follows that with "But that doesn't mean the Surface Go doesn't have reason to exist. If you need a small Windows PC, the Surface Go is the best one out there, by a wide margin." and I agree with that. I've tried here to stress that the issue we see with a lot of our customers in the valuation industry is that they are still dependent on some "legacy" Windows software "suites" even while out in the field, and IF you fall into that category, the SG2 is probably a better fit for you. Of course, most of you who do field inspections for fee appraising are using apps from your software vendor which are only available for iOS or Android. We don't see any fee appraisal "forms/inspection" mobile software being advertised here in the US which is designed for Windows. As I've mentioned before we know of some vendors who are diving in to browser-based software and "conversationally speaking", that means you can run their "app" on a Windows Tablet if you want to. So, to me, that is a factor that makes something like the SG2 a good fit for those of you who need to run their web app and have something with you to handle traditional software suites if/when necessary... I give the author of the article a "pass" on his "best tablet" statement because he is a journalist/reviewer type, not a valuation person who has a limited selection of software, etc.

While I'm on the SG2 topic I'll do a mini-rant on reviewers who are still lambasting the Surface products for not including the keyboard (or pen.) They many times say that these two optional things are necessary because the Windows stuff is not tablet-friendly. I get that, but the reality of the situation is that this "deficiency" is 99% the responsibility of the software developer. I know for a fact that people use our software just fine (and I think more efficiently than some other iOS/Android products. Yes, I am biased, but I also know that our stuff that runs on iPad, Android tablets and Windows tablets is essentially identical in operation. Again, I believe that almost all of these reviewers are in the business of "blogging" and live in a world where they want/need a plethora of mainly mainstream apps and a ton of web pages open all the time vs. doing what most readers here do. In any case, I take exception to them complaining about a $99 keyboard and/or a $99 pen and then giving the much more expensive (!) Apple keyboard and "pencil" a pass, if they mention it at all in their comparison(s.) Sure you don't have to buy the Apple-branded keyboard, but there are also inexpensive 3rd party keyboards for the Surface Go... Please note that I am NOT anti-iPad - I use them (personally and professionally), we write software that runs on them, etc. This thread, however, is on Windows tablets, so unless I am doing a comparison between devices, there is little-to-no mention of them. Perhaps when the browser-based software is more prevalent, I'll start another thread like this one that is for tablets in general.

I hope that those of you who are interested in a device that does what the SG2 does so well, will take the opportunity to go (safely!) check it out at a Best Buy or something. In the interim, I'll see about putting up a video of our Windows10 MobileSketch app on-line to illustrate what I mean about speed, capability, efficient GUI elements allowing for efficient operation without an add-on keyboard, etc. I don't mind showing it here because it is not something really offered for sale to fee appraisers and those readers here who can get it, generally have it as part of their main software package (kind of like how Apex was available through your "forms" software "in the good old days", LOL. Hence, I'm not advertising software - I'm just using software which I know runs on something like even the "old" (previous generation) lowest spec Surface Go. Anyway, when I get Brian or Robert to do a video, I'll make sure to have them do some MS Word, Excel, Web browsing, etc., too. Again, I don't think I would be allowed to show any appraisal software but I can ask if that is a big item for many.

Oh, almost forgot - here is the link to the article: https://www.windowscentral.com/i-absolutely-adore-new-surface-go-2-why


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
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I noted that Amazon has a "Deal of the Day" for the excellent Surface Pro X - the one with 8GB RAM and 128 GB SSD is discounted by $249 and is on sale for $749.99. If you want more SSD, the one with a 256 GB SSD is discounted more (-$449) and is on sale for $849.99. While I believe that the 128 GB is enough since you can use a high capacity mSD card, I think the 256 GB model is clearly the better buy. While a 128 GB mSD card is cheap, having an additional 128 GB of super fast SSD is worth the very small premium IMHO for the massive performance gain if you are using the device as I think some of you might envision. Note that the SPX does not have a mSD slot. You can, however, swap out the SSD if your really need more in the field. (One thing a lot of people miss is that all Surface Pro power supplies have a built-in USB slot. I used to use those for a mouse when in "desktop" mode, but these days I keep a "stubbie" USB drive in mine and I find that I rarely remove it (and it's rarely used except for pics when on lengthy drips...) Of course, all models of the SPX come with 4G LTE capability, so if you want/need something with a larger screen than the SG2, and with more oomph (some say it is on par, or better, than an SP6 with Core i5), this may be your opportunity to score a deal.​

As readers here know, I own and use both. Summarily, for most residential appraisers, I still believe that the SG2 is the more appropriate device when used as a "mainly field device as a 'companion device' to your main rig" due to ergonomic factors (smaller, lighter, etc.) That is, if you routinely do your "heavy lifting" on your desktop or laptop but want to use something in the field which also run your traditional desktop software when needed - kind of an "80/20" thing... Conversely, if you want something with more screen real estate and more oomph - say, something that fits more of a "20/80: profile, maybe the SPX fits the bill better. Note that from what I know about the use case scenarios of readers here, I'm not suggesting that either device will replace your traditional "main daily driver" for most of you. You can beef up the SPX with up to 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD, but it is expensive and really designed for a niche user... Still, if you have considered something like the SG2 with 4G LTE but were wanting more oomph and don't mind (or even prefer) a 13" screen, the SPX might be the ticket. This isn't likely the best analogy, but the SPX is to the SPG as the iPad Pro 12.9 to the iPad 10.5... Again, iPads are very popular devices, etc. but if you need to run Windows software products, the SPX is much less expensive than the iPad Pro 12.9 with similar RAM & SSD, and the SPX even comes with 4G LTE capability & storage memory can be expanded very inexpensively. Both Apple and MS charge extra for keyboards and pens, and they are similarly prices (both also have generic 3rd Party accessories, also at similar prices, though the Surface items tend to be a little less.) Both products are class leaders with respect to build and warranties, etc. IFWIW, I am using rugged cases on both devices, so they are available, and I always recommend an accidental damage protection coverage on field devices - usually ~$99 well spent IMHO. Again, there real main issue at hand here is "Do you want/need to Run Windows in the field, and what size screen do you want?"

I am pleased with the examples I own of both products. One personal observation is that I am not a fan of black tablets (or any other devices except monitors, TVs, etc.) since they show fingerprints more easily. I have purchased a "skin" for my SPX (like I used to do with my Android tablets) but due to my own procrastination. I have not applied it yet, but past experience tells me that the "skin will fix 99% of the fingerprint problem. Also, keeping in mind my age and "ex-appraiser" status, MY use case scenarios do not likely mirror most readers here. Beyond fond memories of my youth (LOL), the only real field inspection activities I do these days are practicing on a few buildings when testing new/existing software, training sessions with a (very) few clients, etc. Outside of some specific valuation-related software, most of the applications I use are "regular business type suites." That said, I know from my experiences (past and present) as well as from feedback from real world users across a pretty wide spectrum of valuation-related users, most look for something in the "Goldilocks" range for size/weight/performance vs. price. So again, as for which one works better for you, think seriously about whether you see yourself mainly in the80/20 or 20/80 camp. Really, with this "Deal of the Day" price on the SPX, there is only about $20 difference between the SG2-4G & SPX and the SG2 with 256 GB is actually $30 more than the 256 GB SPX!

Here is the Amazon link where you can select between the different models:

And a couple of articles (with media) on the SPX:
Also, please note that the "64-bit compatibility issues" with the ARM processor as mentioned in the last article above are as of 02/2020 and that MS has announced further ARM 64 this year. I am not personally running into compatibility issues, but then I'm not trying to run Photoshop 64-bit nor a host of blogging apps on my field tablet, LOL. That said, keep in mind that most reputable dealers (including Amazon) have a return period is you don't think the device works for you. Hence IF you think you MIGHT really be able to use a device like this, you should consider the sale price today IMHO.

[Edit] - I re-read the review article above and thought that the author summed up what I've been trying to say much better than I have been able to do, so I am quoting him here:
"Microsoft Surface hardware chief Panos Panay said the Surface Pro X is for "a tech-forward, mobile professional". That sounds like corporate marketing jargon, but there is some truth to it. Much of today's workforce is increasingly mobile, relying on a few core productivity-based apps like Microsoft Office, OneDrive, Outlook, web, PDF readers, remote access, VPN, and custom line-of-business (LOB) apps. These workers need something very portable, long battery life, 4G LTE, and instant-on abilities with inking for document management."

If you can't find any comparison screen shots between the SG2 and the SPX, note that the review link above has a side-by-side shot of a Surface Pro 7 and a Surface Pro X embedded. If I get done with my "Honey-Do's" today I will see about shooting a shot of my SPX next to my SG2.

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
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I've had some requests for a comparison between some similar devices, so rather than just go into a lengthy narrative, I thought I'd put up a table of the basic items which I think most people care about today. I’ve followed the table with “a little” info which I believe to be relevant when comparing the specs I’ve listed. Hopefully, though, the table up front gives most of you a quick look at the most important items…

1590591676571.png

I included specs for the old MS Surface 3 because I know a few readers here who have them as they were the only Surface model available "back in the day" which had a 4G option. Most users I know were not particularly pleased with the performance of that device - mainly, I think, due to it being an early edition combined with unrealistic expectations, given the components inside, etc. So, while it is not a "contemporary" device, I wanted to include it because in our own tests (using our software only), we found even the lower end Surface Go (4GB RAM, 64 GB eMMC) was able to noticeably outperform the Surface 3. Using the recommended version with 8 GB RAM and 128GB SSD, the performance jump was even more noticeable. Predictably, the new SG2 completely outperforms the previous 8GB/128GB model in every category per our informal tests.

While Apex users won't notice a significant jump in performance, those who are wanting/needing to run some traditional appraisal software suites will notice a fairly significant jump in performance when moving to the Core m3 model. If you are just running mainstream apps (MS Word, MS Excel, a modern browser, etc., you will experience a noticeable performance bump because those apps are optimized for such an environment vs. the bloated & inefficient architecture of some of the proprietary appraisal suites. If you’re running that sort of software, you already know about this situation when running those applications on your more robust desktops/laptops. My point is, with the newer SG2 with Core m3, your ability will be expanded somewhat and/or running the same scenarios will measurably improve, as you would expect. Hence, from our informal "seat of the pants" perspective, the knock on the SG2 with Core m3's higher price by some reviewers is unjustified IMHO given the increased performance for most readers here. Looking at the table above, you see a $50 premium between the 2018 SG & the 2020 SG2, and only a $30 premium between the 2015 S3 & the 2020 SG2.

Finally, I included both the Surface Pro 5 with 4G LTE and the newer Surface Pro X on the right side of the table. Assuming you can still get a SPX for a similar price ($749) as mentioned in my previous post, those numbers are only $20 higher than a SB2 with 4g LTS and it is a significantly more robust device (caveats apply here!) Again, the $100 bump for more storage there is the better buy IMHO. Also, note that for the SG2, it is available with a 256GB SSD via the "Business" store. I think I paid an extra $150 for my unit, but note that the models through the Business Store also have other options/account policies, etc. that are typically geared toward “Enterprise” customers. Hopefully, MS will “demote” this device down to the consumer store at a lower price some day. They did this for the fairly rare Surface Pro5 with 4G LTE – it originally came out 06/15/2017 through the MS Business Store and was not made available to regular consumers until 05/01/2018 and I’ve included the “consumer” info above. While the SP5 was available in Core m3 and up to Core i7 configurations, the 4G LTE variant was available in only one configuration and that is what is listed in the table.


Hope this helps! As always, I am happy to reply with more detail if anyone needs it.



-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
[Edited] for typo's, etc.
/end/
 
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A little off topic for this particular thread, but I am wondering if any readers here are interested in test results from Chromebooks (tablets, "convertables", 2-in-1s, or whatever.) I would handle it in a different thread than this one, or possibly look into "rebooting" this thread into a "Tablets for Fieldwork" (i.e. dropping the "Windows" specialization...

Probably best to PM me with your thoughts vs. "polluting" this thread. TIA for your input.

"I now return you to your regularly scheduled channel..." LOL

-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
 
I've been compiling various germane (to readers here) comments about the newly released Surface Go 2 from a few sources I regularly peruse. Rather than produce another lengthy post, I thought I'd meter it out in fewer snippets so that it is more digestible. To some, it may seem like I may be "championing" the Surface Go 2 as the best thing since sliced bread, but in reality, what I am trying to do is to offer up some input from real world users vs. "reviewer/blogger" types who's measure of how good or bad the Surface Go 2 performs is based on some use case scenarios that don't match up to what the device is designed to do. Additionally, you would see/read that their world is almost solely based on having a ton of Chrome (sigh!) tabs open, several Twitter sessions going, Instagram, et al. I have no beef against them using the tools that they rely on, but keep in mind that their "test harness" does not match up with what we are trying to accomplish here. If the roles were reversed - where you were reviewing a device based on YOUR required software, they would complain that you're not testing it against "Photoshop" or whatever... The thing working against us here is that "the media" (it's always their fault, right? LOL) is comprised almost completely by people who do not do the kinds of tasks that are essentially required of readers here. I like pouring over specs as much as anyone, and I find some value in some of the more applications that put stress on certain components, but I try to keep those results in perspective and only relative to how our users report their work load issues to be affecting their productivity. Personally, I don't really care about how any of the Adobe image or video components run on a mobile device, because I'm not trying to run such applications while I am traversing a building, or even when I get back in the car or stop at Starbucks/McDonalds/whatever... Now, running other software that is not strictly applicable to inspection/appraisal type activities certainly is a factor in my (and our customers') opinion of the device's overall appeal, but it should not be the primary criteria. (Note here - I also realize that many of you favor Chrome as a browser and that you may run photo type apps like Photoshop or Adobe Premier - just realize that nobody in our profession should fool themselves into believing that these are not resource hogs. FWIW, we are finding that the new Edge based on Chromium is far better for mobile device memory envelopes and of course, there are a ton of free/much lower cost photo/video applications that are not so, ummm, robust, LOL. Nevertheless, as an example, I will be posting some user reviews of the original Surface Go running Adobe Premier Pro both in a desktop environment and in the field.)

All that said, I'm starting off this series of quotes by users of the new Surface Go 2 with the one below as it sorta sums up the general consensus of what most of these users are saying (and was by the most skeptical and caustic among them, LOL.) Also, keep in mind that these users are generally self-employed individuals who have been through a plethora of tablets and/or "2-in-1s" over the years, purchased the Surface Go 2 with their own money and are expressing their opinions based primarily on their business purposes, but still want to run the occasional "fun" app or whatever. Most of these quotes are from people in the legal, accounting and even field inspection professions and I feel that their world is a much better representation of what readers here would find useful than what a junior level blogger who covers Hollywood might have to say. I will, perhaps add some quotes from someone like a college student heading off for college since some of you might have children or grandchildren who could benefit from this class of mobile device. Also, over the years I have observed that some of these users are pretty skeptical and caustic from time to time - kind of reminds me of myself and most appraisers I have known, LOL That said, when these people start saying how well the device is working, I feel like it is important to impart this info here...

(Note, the emoji's in the original quote did not carry over here, so I inserted ones which best correspond to the author's original.)
"Finishing up its first week at work and all I can say is that this is what the Go should have been from inception. Maybe as far back as the Surface 3. It's fine to have a low end model for the market, but a high-end (for this device) CPU with decent storage and LTE option make this perfectly sized tablet come to life. Of course, I have come up the ranks from Atom:mad: powered Surface 3, to Pentium:) powered and finally to the M3-8100Y(y). Although not the greatest CPU, it is a vast improvement over what has come before. I am left to wonder ... what the hell took you so long Microsoft?"

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+

PS - my future posts will be shorter :cool:
/end/
 
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