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Terry Russell

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Montana
OK,

I have a question. The following is stated in general terms, not

directed towards any one person or group.

a) This forum is the largest most active of its type on the internet.

b) As of today July 12, 2002 there are about 1500 registered users.

c) Out of those 1500 users, there are. at the most, 100 active participants.

d) Of those 100, there are 25 individuals who contribute 50% of the content of the forum. The remaining 75 individual contribute 45% and the 1400 remaining users contribute 5%.

e) For ease of expression we shall say 100 users contribute 95% of all postings, I believe this is a fairly accurate assumption.

f) There are approximately 83,000 licsensed appraisers in the U.S.

g) So this forum represents approximately 1/10 of 1% of all the appraisers in the U.S.

h) Question: What are the non-participants, 81,500 appraisers doing about all the injustice being laid out bfore us on these forum pages?

i) Question: Are these postings an accurate cross-section of the industry?

h) 99.9 % of all the appraisers in the U.S. chose not to participate in this forum disscussion. Why is that?

Any ideas? Terry
 

Brad in SAC

Freshman Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
It's the same reason Bill Clinton was in office for 8 years--As long as the bills are currently being paid, then who really cares about anything else.
 

Chris LaPlante

Freshman Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Just because there are 83000 licensed appraisers does not mean that there are 83000 appraisers doing lender work. Im sure there are plenty of certified appraisers who haven't done a mortgage appraisal in years.

I work for an appraisal company that specializes in municipal revaluation.
We have 4 certified generals and if any of them do any lender work it is extremely rare.

There are also thousands of tax assessors out there. I am sure many of them have appraisers licences but don't do alot of mortgage stuff.

I'm sure there are also retired appraisers who still have their licenses, also other professionals.

My point is. Although I don't have any hard data to back this up. You could probably knock 15 % off of that 83000 number.

Just my .02 cents.
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
I would suspect that the majority of the balance of non-participating appraisers falls into one of three categories:

1. They are not comfortable with computers and only use them for work. Their opinions are gathered from NBC and CBS news at 6:30.

Or

2. They just don't have time for such nonsense as a BB for appraisers

Or

3. They have not found the site as yet.

As to the question if the opinions expressed here represent a cross-section of the American appraisal industry I would have to say absolutely not.

The opinions and dialogue expressed here represent the cream of the appraisal industry in the United States. What you are seeing on these pages are some of the best and most dedicated appraisers in the U.S. taking the time to set into text their opinions and form replies to assist other appraisers with problems. Your run-of-the-mill number hitter will not take the time to participate in this kind of undertaking. In many cases, the questions asked and answered and the topics discussed directly reflect on some of their marginal appraisal practices. As Brad said, as long as the bills are being paid, who cares?

So I wouldn’t look at this BB as a cross-section, or even as being representative, of appraisers. I would look at it as some of the best, most dedicated appraisers you could ever hope to find who come here to exchange ideas, to learn, to assist and to enjoy the company of folks in their profession.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
I'll add just a little bit to the previous and excellent responses. I do know of a couple of good appraisers that do not/will not take the time to read or post here. Wish they would as I do respect them.

The number hitters, even if they do know know about this site, wouldn't read or post here. They really do know what they are and there is nothing they can or would learn here - nothing they could add that wouldn't show themselves for what they are. We have on rare ocassions had a post or two from an obvious number hitter. They end up being slammed/flamed, usually well deserved for what they wrote, and don't come back.

The possible real percentage of number hitters vs honest and ethical appraisers is something that I think about often and it scares me. It's the number hitter's shops that are pumping out the trainees that have no idea how to actually appraise real estate. Those same untrained people are getting certified and the cycle keeps getting bigger. It would take a lot of time and money to weed them out now. As much as I squirm at the thought of some of the ASC's ideas about raising the standards to become an appraiser - it is definately needed. I would like to see very strong standards for any appraiser to become a supervisor, limit the number of trainees to maybe 3, and the trainee have to pay for that training. Unless someone can come up with a better solution, this is the only one that I've thought of that might work/help. I would have done this to become an appraiser. I had to learn mostly from my past real estate experience and the text books since my own experience and ethics told me my supervisor wasn't worth listening to. There are now way too many certified appraisers that are supervising trainees that just don't know what they are doing. They are not participants on this forum.

I agree that this forum does have the cream of the crop. There are more good ones out there that just haven't yet found us.
 

Dee Dee

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
I think it would be safe to assume that a sizeable number of the people who browse through this forum with little or no comment are those who have a desire to enter the profession but are unable to find mentors.

Kudos to them! They are continuing their education by keeping up on current issues that their peers confront on a regular basis, and (I believe) will be better prepared when they finally find their way.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I concur and I wish the ASB and Boards would recognize and limit the liability that mentors have regarding trainees. Say, on properties less than 100K, a lesser level of supervisory involvement should be allowed. Otherwise, few of the wannabe appraisers will ever find a way to get into the business short of working for the assessor. That may teach a few fundementals, and lots of bad habits (chief among them is inadequate verification). Further, I know a chief appraiser for the county who was certified and had performed exactly 1 URAR report in his life. The rest of his experience was assessor related. He has had to work as little more than a trainee since, although I understand he is doing very well now.

Under the current system, I have the problem of correcting mistakes that are Xtremely difficult to detect. The "dumb" mistakes (attached instead of detached ; zoning is R-2 not R-1; etc.); missing fields; etc. are far more serious to the supervisor than the newbie who does not understand the consequences of failure.

The 83,000 registery members include many appraisers with 2 or more state certifications, so the actual number of appraisers is likely under 70,000. 20% of those, I aver, are well under full time.

Appraisers who do not participate at all in appraisal chatrooms, are the same ones who never buy an appraisal related book (I spent $700+ last year on appraisal literature not including cost books, etc.); do not buy or read USPAP except the required course; do not subscribe to Appraisal Journal or even read the REV Magazine that comes free to them; never take more than the required minimum CE regardless how helpful the course might be; and, in general, do the exact minimum they must to pursue their job (as opposed to their profession.)

ter
 

George Hatch

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
There are other forums, each with their own regulars. I know at least a couple of really good appraisers who don't go online (even to lurk) because they don't consider this a profitable way to use their time. I'm sure my office manager agrees with that!

There's more than one way to advance the cause. Different strokes for different folks.


George Hatch
 

Michael Reilly

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
I have been reading the posts on this board for all most 2 years now. I have found some of it very interesting but, for the most part it is like talking to a drunk, you hear the same old story over and over. I help run in my opinion a fairly sizable appraisal shop ( 15 full time, fully licensed & certified and a few certified general appraisers and a licensed trainee that works full time with each appraiser. 30+ field people and another 20 internal personal to put all the pieces together) covering 4 of the top 25 MSA’s producing work for at least 10 of the top 20 lenders in the country. Not long ago I started to interact on the forum and was attacked by some of you (I wont mention any names, you know who you are) to the point that Wayne had to step in and shut down the thread. You don’t know me or the type of business we run , so because I didn’t kiss your rings you said “crook, number hitter, USPAP violator ect..ect..ect. I have seen this a thousand times, and you wonder why the ratio of appraisers across the country to those who will speak up on this site is so low. It just amazes me. You talk about getting rid of all the bad appraisers and I agree, you talk about making it more difficult to enter this profession and I agree, but what comes with that is the inability of this industry to perform and believe me the banks see this too and are doing something about it as we speak, ala AVM’s, abbreviated reports, desk tops, and in a growing number of cases no report at all. This industry, specifically it’s participants continues to cut their own throats and a lot of it happens right here. WAKE UP ALL

Respectfully

M Reilly
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Terry,

Interesting post! Could it be that only one appreiser in any given market chooses to participate? Some appraisers are rather secretive, and really don't want other appraisers with whom they compete to get an inside track on their practices, methods, or philosophy.

In Ocala, FL, there are about 30+ appraisers. There may be some lurkers, but I have been the Ocala active participant. Participation rate then, is low ... about 3%.

In Judy Woodruff's town, Brooksville, there are probably no more than 2 or 3 appraisers (in that County). If that's so, the participation rate there is high ... 33%.

In Jacksonville, FL, there may be hundreds of appraisers, but only one activie participant that I know of: Pamely Crowley. Most certainly very low rate of participation there.

How about Atlanta, GA? We have seen only a few posts from there. Chicago? Los Angeles? Bismark, ND? Miami, FL?

Most of the people who post here do not have a designation in one of the major appraisal organizations. There are a few MAI's, SRA's, RAA's and GAA's, who make valuable contributions to the Forum. However, I've noticed that here, in Ocala, FL. designated members of the Instiute talk to each other, but seldom speak to and certiainly do not hob-nob with non-members of the Institute. Those in strong appraisal organizations have internal publications, local Chapter meetings and their own internet Forums. Why do they need this one?

Most of the subjects being broached here have been explored at once before. Many of the original strong participants may think there's not much new here. By the way, where have all the old-timers gone?

So, there are many reasons for non-participation in this forum.

I think it would be interesting to know in what States and Cities there is high particpation, and in what geographic areas is the percent of participation low? Mabe Wayne has some stats on that.


Thomas N. Morgan
Ocala, FL
 
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