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[Ross (CO)]

Appearing now deep into page 2, and yet relating back to atc's original posting about the number-crunched perspective on person's participating in this Forum.....The absolute majority of appraisers in the country do NOT know of the existence of the Appraiser's Forum ! That's all right, so be it, and little by little more will find it and perhaps check it out. There are other appraiser chat-room and forum environments out there. Our's here is one, yet not the only one. The number of folks who may be recognized as regular participants and posting "members" is perhaps in the several hundreds. The number which strikes a greater chord is the number who have signed the Petition. As I logged in this morning I saw a number of 6596. It is a number which grows slowly, and certainly we know too that there are numerous entry glitches of single punctuation marks, etc. which have added at least a hundred or more no-name signers to that list so let's say it might be 6400. There certainly are not 6400 regular participants in the Forum categories we view. That's all right, so be it. For someone to express themselves by signing the Petition and then "disappear" adds some to the mystery. I wondered early on whether the national client pool cruised our website and searched for familiar names of posters and cross-referenced their approved lists and black-lists and other sorts of lists and might find reason then to permanently delete our names forever ........ because we were individuals who spoke out about the experiences and frustrations we may have in this line of work. The other side of that just may be the clients who search the Forum, follow posts and names and then actively seek to find us in our respective cities and states and maybe then, actually secure our services because they want what we stand for. Just like it has been said that NOT all companies in the country have crooked accounting practices or accountants, not all (potential) clients for us are crooked. Many want just what we strive to provide, a no-nonsense estimate of value. So, how do the good clients become introduced to the good appraisers ? I'm afraid that answer is .....slowly.

 

[slacker]

I have been reading the posts on this board for all most 2 years now. I have found some of it very interesting but, for the most part it is like talking to a drunk, you hear the same old story over and over.

Perfect analogy!!

I always feel that I'm reading posts from a "potential" Special Interest Group. As in the original post, there seems to be a few participants that contribute all the input and opinion. If those opinions are challenged, that group (special interest) seems to gang up on the other appraisers with a “you can’t possibly know as much as we do” approach. I’m sure that many of the people that read on this forum get discouraged from posting because of it.

That small group consistently comes up with some very useful insight and opinion that is often perceived as the only view.

Just remember that just because the familiar people on this site “say it’s so”, doesn’t necessarily mean that it is.

But then again, that’s just my opinion.

 

[Kevin Shannon]

Slacker, now yours is the best post I've seen in a long time. I agree 100 percent. This forum has become a big cliche.
Either agree or get out.

 

[Ross (CO)]

For Kevin, who agrees 100% with slacker......a cliche' ?, are you sure ? I did hear that someone once thought to it to be one big clique. Where have you ever witnessed a posting where someone expressed that another should "agree (with them) or get out ! " I do not think you can cite one example of that. We have all seen those posts where someone has volunteered to leave the Forum...and never come back....and don't you guys try to change my mind ..... because this is final.....you guys tick me off because you all refuse to agree with me....and so I am leaving the Forum......and did I say that I was not coming back ?.....because I am not....no matter how hard you all try to draw me back in ! When Kevin can isolate this "small group" it really does show that they may be on the other side of his fence. That's all. Have any of the people in that "small group" ever suggested that Kevin "get out" of the Forum ? No, I doubt it. That assumption about the Forum is still only half-baked, and I fully agree with your half-baked assumption.

 

[Kevin Shannon]

Thanks Ross, I rest my case. Ruffled your feathers a little by daring to state my opinion and look at your reaction.

Sorry won't happen again.

 

[Randy Beigh]

"Are these postings an accurate cross-section of the industry?"

I doubt that is the case.

I have been on appraisal forums since 1995 and have seen many people come and go. Starting with the Appraisal Instititute's forum to this, I have found the forums to be educational, informative, and a great way to see how other appraisers view similar issues. All in all, the states should provide educational credits for time spent on these forums.

mreilly's concern that others would jump on him is legitimate. I have seen this done a thousand times. Don't know why, other than to say there is certain amount of anonymity that goes with these forums. Face to face, we would rarely talk to each other with such harshness or rudeness.

I also dispute the issue that contributing appraisers are the cream of the crop as has been stated. While, I have seen that argument in the past, there is no support for such a statement.

The questions brought up are brought up by every forum and while they are worthy questions are not likely to be answerable in a specific manner. They can be answered in a general human nature manner. And there are folks who have studied the issues of life spans of forums and there ups and downs. I have seen such a study, but don't remember where.

All in all, I enjoy this forum as well as the AI forum and the mostly inactive NAIFA forum. I do participate even though, sometimes, some appraisers jump on me. I participate for several reasons. But, the primary reasons dealing with learning, keeping up with changes, and helping others if I can. I take far more than I could ever contribute back.

 

[George Hatch]

Clique or cliche?

There are a number of purposes for a forum such as this. Among them are the exchange of ideas, the expression of viewpoints, sharing of common experiences, and the chance to tilt at the same windmills. As a group, appraisers are very opinionated and very accustomed to defending those opinions. It's part of our job description. As a group, appraisers are not known for their people skills or diplomacy. When different opinions collide on this forum, as certainly as they must, the results will look like a debate. Those debates don't always end after a single volley, but often run until one side no longer has a response. We assume that our peers have similar common experiences, and we assume they are as fervent in their beliefs as we are about ours.

Now, merely having an opinion is not the same thing as being able to back it up. By that, I mean that expressing an opinion is fine and is a natural right. But unlike other occupations, our job description includes not only developing the opinion but also being able to demonstrate it. I see lots of people get frustrated on this forum, not because they can't express their opinion, but because they can't support those opinions with adult thinking. I don't hang out on the Watercooler pages because that's not my thing. But I know of at least a couple of folks over there who do not share the common view (of the appraisal community as a whole). Yet they thrive on the forum because they can back up what they say without getting emotional about it. It matters not to them that they are not the majority, and I don't see anyone knocking them or disrespecting them.


That said, there is no excuse for unprofessional behavior on this forum. Disagreement among professionals is one thing; throwing tantrums and getting personal is another. One of the long standing rules on this forum is that posters use their real names rather than screen names. This can detract from the civility quotient. It's easier to say things you wouldn't normally say when your own name isn't out there or when you're responding to someone else whose name isn't out there. We have a lot of lurkers on this site, some of whom won't actively participate because they are afraid they will get blasted for asking a simple question. Ocassionally, we get someone new on this site who comes in with both guns blazing and then gets incinerated because they failed to understand that the collective ethos on this site is oriented toward concientiousness and professionalism rather than making the maximum amount of coin.

You are known by the company you keep. I feel pretty comfortable on this site, which I suppose says something about myself and something about the regulars who participate. I'd like to see more participants, but even more, I'd like to see us treat each other a little better. Don't say something outrageous unless you have something to support it; or if you do, don't walk away mad because someone on this forum lit your position up like a chrismas tree. Don't let your disagreements with others get personal, and try not to take things other people say to you personally.

In other words, let's be adults.

George Hatch

 

[Pam]

mreilly wrote:
I have been reading the posts on this board for all most 2 years now. I have found some of it very interesting but, for the most part it is like talking to a drunk, you hear the same old story over and over.


Story 1: No college degrees. College degrees are meaningless.

Story 2: Review appraisers and underwriters don't know MY market.

Story 3: When challenged, charge more.

Story 4: The only real appraisers are sole practioners.

Story 5: Blame or analogize all the evils of the world on/to Bill Clinton.

Feel free to refer to the standard stories by number.

 

[Randy Beigh]

Pam

Loved number 4. There is a common thread that I have seen many times in this forum more so than the others. That is, an office with staff are dis-honest, number hitting, and poor appraisers. That's unfortunate as well as not very realistic. It also shows that the person writing is kind of in their own shallow world.

It begs a concern that I have had for some time and that is how appraisers are so quick to rush to judgment of other appraisers. If the competitor doesn't do things the way they do them, then must be unethical and that's not right. We have a responsibility to act professionally amongst ourselves. I think USPAP should be changed to reflect professionalism toward each other. I read another post from someone, in this forum today, that said 99% of reviews completed are fraudulent. Seems unlikely.

Number 5's name could be changed to George Bush and just about anybody else.

Very good and entertaining post. Keep it up.

 

[slacker]

mreilly wrote:
Story 1: No college degrees. College degrees are meaningless.
Story 2: Review appraisers and underwriters don't know MY market.
Story 3: When challenged, charge more.
Story 4: The only real appraisers are sole practioners.
Story 5: Blame or analogize all the evils of the world on/to Bill Clinton.
Feel free to refer to the standard stories by number.

Wait a minute! I'm taking back all those "Special Interest" references. Seeing this list above has made me change my view, if I'm allowed to do that without proving my view in some sort of addendum to the forum.

That list reads very much like “Country Music”. Like this forum, I can only take so much Country Music. And isn’t Country Music based on just a few themes as well?

Let’s see:
1. Drinking
2. Trains
3. Truck Driving
4. Ex-Wives
5. Jail
6. Feel free to add more…….

My very unscientific and un-supportable theory about some of the views and advice in this forum is simply this. I hate Country Music but find myself listening to it once in a while anyway.

This forum contains many useful items even if they do tend to repeat. Maybe we can all agree that appraising in general is not as complex as some would make it out to be, regardless of my degree, fees, working for large offices, and yes, Bill Clinton.

If it were, wouldn’t we have a lot less repetition of the topics? Maybe there really isn’t that much to talk about. I guess there’s plenty of room for discussion within USPAP, but that’s like arguing over religion, and it’s to early in the week to go there.

Have a nice day……..