ABOLISH and OUTLAW bank owned/affiliated and/or contracted management companies.

[George Hatch]

Take up a collection and pay George Hatch and Danny Wiley as consultants to review the petition and rewrite it.

I saw what our community did to Danny Wiley when he accepted money from an appraisal company in exchange for his professional analysis and advice, and I want no part of that. However much he charged for his time and efforts in that transaction I have a feeling he got rooked - he probably should have charged triple. Based on his treatment I've decided that if I can't afford to do something for appraisers for free then I can't afford to do it at all.

If by "rewrite" you mean to completely drop all references that are primarily self serving to appraisers and reorient the petition strictly in terms of the public interest that would be one thing. After all, you are appealing to Congress and are asking them to intervene in these commercial transactions and relationships.

If by "rewrite" you mean to retain all of the narrow references but restate them in a different manner that would entirely different. We're talking about the difference between open heart surgery and a nose job.

I would consider participating in the one path but I wouldn't give the other path a second thought. IMO, efforts that are oriented to self-preservation are doomed to failure. If our profession serves society then what's good for the public interest is ultimately what's good for us.

I don't think the idea of an AMC is necessarily a bad thing. It turns bad to the extent that it is abused, which I think most people would agree is what's going on here. I think that if all AMC employees, up to and including the management, were acting within the letter and intent of the first half of USPAP to the extent that it applies to any other appraisal entity then we wouldn't be having a lot of the problems we're having right now. I think that if the AMC employees were acting within the letter and intent of the banking regulations to the extent those apply to the lender then that would also be very beneficial. In lieu of banning AMCs outright, a combination of the two (USPAP and the banking regs) would be ideal.

Reasonable people will disagree, and I respect that. Unreasonable people will go postal over the disagreement - that's going to be a problem.

 

[Couch Potato]

Well Said.

(my highlights)

This is beyond disturbing and is very revealing of the motives of the author. In a mortgage related appraisal the real estate agent is never the actual client. This smacks very loudly of an author who is an advocate for the agent and the MB and for getting the deal done in order to preserve the flow of orders from agents and MBs.

I say revealing because it sets the stage for the other self serving elements of the document.

My remarks are harsh but I am absolutely flabbergasted at the blatant misrepresentation of what an independent, unbiased, disinterested third party is.

I like your comments Marcia.:new_smile-l:

 

[Mr Rex]

Yeah, rewrite to take out the whiny attitude, the obvious bias from a certain fee appraiser perspective (not all agree with all of the points as they are presented), and the repetitive nature of the points. Use bullet points with subparagraphs providing explanation etc. As it is, it seems to run around in circles, like a dog chasing its tail, barking the same tune, that gets tuned out about line 5. MHO.

 

[Stone]

Nothing to comment, other than to say that didn't feel like a snipe at all.. I have been helping Craig in the wording of the petition, and I will continue to say it isn't perfect, but I can agree with the bulk of it.

If there is a version--with either more or less content...that you could see gaining widespread approval, please, please please send that information to either me or craig to include/exclude before the 3rd of Jan. Craig wants as much acceptance for this initiative as possible.

If you are just opposed to doing anything further at this point, as in there is no petition of any sort dealing with AMC's that you would sign...

Please comment that way so that people can understand it may not be this particular petition, but any petition in general.

Please help us get this thing in good shape folks, this isn't a take it or leave it proposition yet.


And PS--if I send you a PM, you better read it:new_2gunsfiring_v1:

I signed the appraisers petition here years ago. I have no problem in signing a petition.

As I noted before, the references to mortgage shopping (including discussions of who the client really is) and approved lists would have to go before I would consider signing it. I'm not going to re-read it (again), and there may be more. The entire tone seems to have an "I'm entitled to get work from anyone - whether they want me or not" attitude. I don't buy into that line of thinking.

This comment from Craig a couple of posts ago is similar to the attitude I find with this petition and with his website in general:

If, you havn't had this problem, it is because you are not an independent fee appraiser, and you are employed directly by one of the big banks as is Mr. Harriman, aloof in the ivory banking tower in NY.

 

[Marcia Langley]

True, Stone. Readers here should not confuse issues between agreement/disagreement with the petition and fondness/dislike of AMCs or do/don't work for AMCs or independent/employee status or whether or not one's work has been directly impacted by AMCs.

Whether or not one can find credibility within this petition has nothing to do with their feelings about AMCs.

It has to do with the underlying thrust of the document itself and the content.

 

[Ron Howson]

The issues are the issues on the petition, not what you say the issues are.

Whether the petition is approved or not is an entirely different thing, but minimally it will alert congress to real problems that are affecting us and the appraisal industry, lending industry, banking industry, etc.

This is a good time to do this. There is a lot of scrutiny in Washinton now. We need to have our views and difficulties voiced. This petition is one thing that will do that.

Otherwise, the AVMs and the AMCs will have more say over the appraisal industry than appraisers do. AVMs will be considered more dependable and honest. AMCs will continue to have their way. We will continue to be deprived of income to the point that, eventually, we can't afford to do anything about it. Appraisers will be used to take pictures, fill out forms, and measure and will have no value beyond that of another office worker.

Right now, this is free. No money out of anyones pocket. But it does something for us and may be instrumental in determining whether the independent fee appraiser profession continues or not.

I would like to be able to continue appraising. I kind of like it. I sure don't like the income lately. Soon, if things continue the way they are going, I will have to do something else, so will many appraisers. So do something now while there is still something that can be done.

It costs nothing to sign this petition, but might secure a future for us. I would like to see lots of people sign it, even if it doesn't go through, even if the wording isn't exactly perfect. Congress is getting an ear full from people other than us. They are all looking out for their own interests. Nobody is doing that for us, which is why I cringe every time I see someone call into question Craig's intentions. He's not charging us for this.

It seems the least we could do for ourselves is sign it. We can only gain from it. There is no loss by doing it. Only loss if we don't.

 

[Lost Cause]

It costs nothing to sign this petition... We can only gain from it. There is no loss by doing it.

Some would beg to differ. Once lost, credibility can be a tough thing to regain.

 

[Stone]

The issues are the issues on the petition, not what you say the issues are.

Whether the petition is approved or not is an entirely different thing, but minimally it will alert congress to real problems that are affecting us and the appraisal industry, lending industry, banking industry, etc.

This is a good time to do this. There is a lot of scrutiny in Washinton now. We need to have our views and difficulties voiced. This petition is one thing that will do that.

Otherwise, the AVMs and the AMCs will have more say over the appraisal industry than appraisers do. AVMs will be considered more dependable and honest. AMCs will continue to have their way. We will continue to be deprived of income to the point that, eventually, we can't afford to do anything about it. Appraisers will be used to take pictures, fill out forms, and measure and will have no value beyond that of another office worker.

Right now, this is free. No money out of anyones pocket. But it does something for us and may be instrumental in determining whether the independent fee appraiser profession continues or not.

I would like to be able to continue appraising. I kind of like it. I sure don't like the income lately. Soon, if things continue the way they are going, I will have to do something else, so will many appraisers. So do something now while there is still something that can be done.

It costs nothing to sign this petition, but might secure a future for us. I would like to see lots of people sign it, even if it doesn't go through, even if the wording isn't exactly perfect. Congress is getting an ear full from people other than us. They are all looking out for their own interests. Nobody is doing that for us, which is why I cringe every time I see someone call into question Craig's intentions. He's not charging us for this.

It seems the least we could do for ourselves is sign it. We can only gain from it. There is no loss by doing it. Only loss if we don't.

The issues that are being discussed here are the issues on the petition. I have problems with it as written - and I doubt those problems will be addressed significantly in a re-write. The authors do not agree that they are problems, so it doesn't seem likely to change much.

It seems the least we could do for ourselves is sign it. We can only gain from it. There is no loss by doing it. Only loss if we don't.

It doesn't matter what it costs. I (and apparently several others) have significant issues with the tone and content of the petition. I signed the original petition at this site because I believed it to be reasonable. I don't believe this one is.

Don't mistake people who have fundamental disagreements with the petition as folks who don't understand.

 

[Kevin Mc]

Agreed.

As I noted before, the references to mortgage shopping (including discussions of who the client really is) and approved lists would have to go before I would consider signing it. I'm not going to re-read it (again), and there may be more. The entire tone seems to have an "I'm entitled to get work from anyone - whether they want me or not" attitude. I don't buy into that line of thinking.

nor do I. I agree with much of what is on the petition but the overall tone of the petition is wrong. I have worked for everything I have gained in this business. I came into it entitled to nothing. The petition is exactly what Stone and others have reiterated several times. It is whiny, period. Keep it simple and objective.

 

[George Hatch]

IMO,

If your goal in this is to secure your future then you would be well served to start looking elsewhere now.

Between 1996 - 2000 the number of fully licensed/certified apparaisers in California declined by 30%. Anyone who doesn't think the same thing is going to happen this time is fooling themself. Only the strong will survive, and that type of strength is something you build, not something that is given to you.

As a profession we deserve to thrive only to the extent that we can provide a meaningful service to society; not because we hold licenses from the states, not because we've made good money in the past, not because we have families to support and especially not because we like the lifestyle.

So if it really is about being relevant to society then that's the orientation we should be using when we appeal to Congress for intervention.

Look at it this way, if you want to build support the broader your appeal the more legs your message will have. Anyone who will sign the "appraisers-first" version will also sign an ammended "public-first" version; it should be apparent to you by now that the reverse is not true.