College degree?

[bobburnitt]

Well Frank,

I read it, and it makes no since to me why NAR is against having well educated appraisers. Every Realtor I know thinks that appraisers are the dumbest thing going. I guess they like it that way.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings much at all if the powers that be did nothing on a national level. If Texas alone would bring the requirements up to the point that it would make this racket a real profession, it would be a good thing to me. I am not ever going to live anywhere else.

Their fear that we would have too few appraisers, if it were to happen, would be better than what we have now in Texas. What we have now is an oversupply of appraisers, cutthroat competition, declining fees, and the number hitters doing all the good. We have too many appraisers.

BB in Texas

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Well Frank,

I read it, and it makes no since to me why NAR is against having well educated appraisers. Every Realtor I know thinks that appraisers are the dumbest thing going. I guess they like it that way.

BB,

Thanks for taking the time to read the response, but please don't twist the meaning of the words. Nowhere in the document does it state NAR is against having well educated appraisers. Just for the record, I am a REALTOR, have been for 25 years, do not involve myself in real estate brokerage or sales, and DO NOT believe appraisers are the "dumbest thing going".

In addition, in January, (LINK) the National Association of REALTORS made a recommendation to HUD that appraisers for FHA Appraisals should be State-Certified and have two years experience as a State-Certified Appraiser prior to being considered qualified to be included on the FHA Roster.

We believe one size does not fit all. Different states, jurisdictions, client groups and intended users may see the need for varying levels of education and experience. The AQB proposal discounts the value of experience. In fact, it specifically forbids the substitution of experience for education.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings much at all if the powers that be did nothing on a national level. If Texas alone would bring the requirements up to the point that it would make this racket a real profession, it would be a good thing to me. I am not ever going to live anywhere else.

Either the Texas Legislature or the Texas Regulatory Board is free to enhance their appraiser criteria. Nowhere is it stated a jurisdiction cannot adopt more stringent requirements.

Their fear that we would have too few appraisers, if it were to happen, would be better than what we have now in Texas. What we have now is an oversupply of appraisers, cutthroat competition, declining fees, and the number hitters doing all the good. We have too many appraisers.

One of the most difficult and important things to keep in mind is the fact there are 56 jurisdictions which license and certify appraisers. What holds true in your great state may not be the case in Arkansas, Arizona, Puerto Rico, Florida or the Virgin Islands. Doesn't it make sense for a jurisdiction, with a more intimate knowledge of their professional demographics, to make decisions to determine the necessary qualifications criteria applicable within their borders? Why should the situation you describe in Texas affect the ability of an individual in New Hampshire, Rhode Island or Maine to enter the appraisal profession?

Title XI of FIRREA specifically states "minimum criteria for certification issued by the Appraiser Qualifications Board of the Appraisal Foundation". Granted, this is subject to interpretation, but with the establishment of a "minimum" does it not logically follow it is possible for a level above to exist?

 

[Will Granger]

Bob,
Good reply. I suppose there are "academics" who have a drive to get a degree, but may not fit into the crowd on the street. Although a college education is a good thing, like another forumaiden said, it is not absolutely necessary and alternatves should be available.
I don't think we'll ever see a college degree as a requirement to be an appraiser. The taxing authorities are interested in letting people achieve high incomes to support those who are less ambitious.
I personally think there are more people out there who will work just enough to get by than there are who are willing to excell. Appraisers are generally classified as entrepreneurs and have a "get-ahead" attitude with or without a degree. The unfortunate thing about appraising; there's no profit in it. It's all about trading your time for dollars. If we are lucky enough to have people working for us, called leverage, we are probably training our competition. It's been an interesting career......... 8)

 

[bobburnitt]

Frank,

It said in the article that NAR was not in favor of requiring degrees for appraisers. What does that mean?

I am well aware that states can require over and above. The fact the minimums are so low is absurd.

In Texas a broker must have 900 hours of education and a 2 year apprenticeship as a real estate salesman (well at least they must hold the license) before they can sit for the broker exam. No degree is required, but, 900 hours if the quality is there, is the same amount of contact hours (roughly) that it takes to get an Associates degree.

Texas State Certified Residential Real Estate Appraiser only require 120 contact hours of education. Broker 900----Appraiser 120.

I hold both licenses, among other things, and I can tell you the appraiser hat requires a higher level of expertise.

There are many people in TAR (Texas Association of Realtors) that believe a broker should have a degree. They are not the majority---yet. However, that could change. TAR is a powerful lobby group. If the pro degree people become the majority, degree requirements will be on the way.

The appraisers, well lets face it, they are never going to lobby for degrees. And if they wanted to, they are too few in number to lobby effectively.

I could live with appraisers not having real estate specific degrees, if the education requirements met and or exceeded the requirements for broker licensure. That would be an improvement over what we have.

I must say this, most of the appraisers I am acquainted with hold broker licenses, and many of them have degrees. But it is strictly voluntary.

This business is in a sorry state, for three reasons. Lack of enforcement of existing laws, puny education requirements, and the third which is a result of the second, too many appraisers.

BB in Texas

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

>>>kind of a degree for a real estate appraiser? Duh, try real estate. <<<

Bob,

Duh, like what about the other items that need appraised? USPAP applied to a host of things besides real estate. "Real Estate" as a degree program is generally an afterthought, with only a few schools like Texas A & M that even offer any useful program.

There may be an over-abundance of residential appraisers, but I can speak from experience that there is an absolute paucity of commercial appraisers with any sense...and commercial appraising almost always implies INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE.

I have had calls from Texas about appraising mineral properties. There are a lot of geologists and engineers capable of appraising minerals, but if you require a USPAP compliant report, almost none of them will have an appraisal license or any clue as to how to write a USPAP compliant report. DITTO for forest land, farm land, business valuation, etc.

The only period of time in which residential appraising ONLY has paid well was in the past 15 years and we may be coming to the sea change in the Appraisal business where every appraiser must have a niche which includes some speciality beyond residential appraisals.

The implication of having a degree before being qualified as either an appraiser or a real estate salesperson is to imply it to be a tool to make appraisers scarcer thus allow us to raise prices. I hate to bust anyones bubble about the future of appraisal fees, but it is certain that residential fees will not rise very much higher before the bankers pressure congress for a cheaper alternative.

My brother is a banker and recently attended a conference with sister banks (Arvest, the Walton family chain of banks) where they were given a serious pitch by an AVM to do all their appraisals where the loan to value ratio is less than 90%. The fee they quoted was something like $435, 72 hr. turnaround, which is more than the fees local appraisers charge, but about 10 days better turnaround. Bro. made it plain that in the future, Arvest will continue to give this a hard look. It is a cap upon residential fees, and degreed or not, there is a limit to what the customer is willing to pay.

 

[bobburnitt]

Terrel,

Several colleges in Texas have real estate programs. Texas A&M, University of North Texas, University of Texas at Arlington, and many of the community colleges such as Cedar Valley College, Northlake College, and Tarrant County College, to name a few, offer real estate programs or degrees. Were degrees required, you can believe that more schools would develop programs.

I wish that USPAP regulated personal property appraisals only when they are in conjunction with real property appraisals. It is very unfair that personal property appraisers do not have to conform to USPAP unless they are a real estate appraiser as well. That really stinks. Auctioneers (I used to be one) appraise all sorts of personal property all the time. They can do it any way they want to, no rules or standards. Fire off an opinion, send a bill with it. That is the reason it ain't worth a damn either.

Real Estate Appraisers must have the knowledge and experience to complete an assignment competently. (That sounds familiar) In Texas the license that we hold states "Real Estate Appraiser" on it. Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Real Estate Appraiser, Real Estate Degree.

No license is required to be a personal property appraiser. If you are a personal property appraiser in Texas and don't appraise real estate, you are required to have no license or certification. USPAP supposedly applies to these people, I have never heard of one single example of enforcement of USPAP regarding a personal property appraiser who is not a real estate appraiser.

I agree with you that residential appraisals fees can only go so high, but, I am not seeing them go up, I'm seeing them going down.

Medical Doctors vary in expertise and training. But some common ground exists in their background. They build a certain type of training into a specialty. What is wrong with that?

I'll say it again, real estate appraisal should not have the lowest education requirements in the real estate industry. That makes no sense to me.

BB in Texas

 

[jtrotta]

bobb
this is a lenghty string, but thought I would add to the problem; you keep refering to Doctors; Dentists; Lawyers & Nurses or other professionals. These folks make 10 times what we make, they have full benefits; they have paid vacations; they have retirement programs; they have paid days off; they have "sick days"; they have it all.

what we have is; we pay for everything - there is no way you can consider this a profession unless we recieve all of the above; we are basically controlled by the "Banking Industry" and they set the rules we need to play by and the edumacation we need to get. If you choose to get a COLLEGE degree to be somebody's gofer, it will be a said state of affairs. 2ndly we need to get the continuing ed off in the right direction before we go playing around with requiring a college degree.

8)

 

[bobburnitt]

You have the cart before the horse. You are saying that because doctors, lawyers, Indian Chiefs have benefits, they should have degrees. In other words, if the profession doesn't offer benefits you shouldn't have to have a degree. That is an interesting point of view.

All of the doctors and lawyers that I am personally acquainted with are self-employed. They have no 'benefits' unless they pay for them themsleves. I know that some doctors and lawyers are salaried and do receive benefits, but the reason they receive benefits is because they are somewhat in DEMAND. They are in demand because you can't take 120 contact hours of 'education' that is taught by a non-college and become a doctor. Thank God!! Appraisers have to buy their own 'benefits' because they are self-employed. All self-employed people have to buy their own insurance or do without. I do without, and I have heart disease. I desparately need health insurance, but can't afford it.

It is economics and government at it's worst. Since the government had to bail out the loan sleaze of the 1980's, who did their plundering with the aid of crooked appraisers, the government decided that they would regulate appraisers to supposedly prevent the fiasco from happening again. Then the government makes becoming an appraiser easier than ever which results in an oversupply of appraisers, which in turn brings about cutthroat competition and a wave of number hitting like never before!!!!!!!! Ridiculous!!!

Appraisers are not respected, not paid what they should be worth because there are too many appraisers. This is made possible by the requirements being too low. Easy requirements=large supply. If supply exceeds demand, well, you are over-stocked. Nobody is going to furnish benefits to a tradesman that can be replaced at the drop of a hat. If appraisers were in shorter supply, the appraisers would have negotiating power. It is elementary economics.

If you want to keep the requirements low, you are voting for the status quo.

I know that I am wasting my time discussing this issue, because the people who have the minimum education are generally not going to see the need for higher requirements. It is like talking to a teen-ager. A lot of teenagers can find every reason in the world not to go to college. It comes back to bite them later in life.

Grandfather the existing appraisers, they are largely a gray haired lot (like myself) anyway, but raise the requirements for the people coming on, and make this a real profession.

BB in Texas

 

[Farm Gal]

Works for me Bob:

Except that having grandfathered appraisers means there is likely to be a backlash against the grandfathered folks!

Which would mean an association might means omething again or not which means we are largely back to where we started out , Non?

 

[jim farrelly]

my philosophy is simple. higher education is a privilege and not a right. employment is also a privilege and not a right. in my opinion, requiring a degree will limit and slow down the applicant field. i hold a bs and a ms; both in the social services field. my degrees have no relationship to the real estate or the appraisal field. what these degrees did was expose me to other fields and other interests. the degrees i hold required writing classes, computer classes, probability and statistics, research development, grant writing, and publishing a thesis. could i appraise without a degree? YES. would i be successful? i doubt it. the degrees helped raise my self-esteem, confidence, and my ability to communicate in an effective manner. all of which are needed to grow, groom, and nurture a successful business.

as a side note, in the last two weeks, i have received 20 resumes and cover letters from people seeking employment as a trainee. i cant believe the garbage that has been sent to me. so far, every submitted letter and resume has contained typographical errors, grammatical errors, spelling errors, and syntax errors. because of this carelessness, none were granted an interview. by the way, none were college graduates.