Desktop appraisals officially rolling out

[Overimprovement]

That is a cogent response, J. My personal inclination is that they're going to be a nothingburger initially. Nobody's going to have the sketch with interior walls, no lenders have the infrastructure in place to order/procure those, and the appraiser is still going to be responsible for gathering meaningful interior condition documentation - whether from recent MLS, homeowner photos, etc. My guess is that lenders won't be able to provide the appraisers the required documentation and, as such, appraiser's aren't going to accept/complete the orders - in which case, they'll be done as traditional 1004's.

That said, I do think the infrastructure will be in place eventually, and that appraisers who embrace the product early on will find themselves in a much better position down the road than those appraisers who refuse to do them.

Granted - both our opinions are nothing but speculation at this point.

I think you very well may be correct, and further, I hope so.

To summarize Fannie's current position on these:
Hybrid--someone actually took pictures inside the house-what Fannie calls an 'inspection'.
Desktop--no pictures, but a floorplan is required.
Appraiser does the same report in both, correct? (I've not done either so I cannot speak from experience).

I see no time savings at all with this--some THING has to be scheduled either way, and I would argue taking pictures inside a house is faster than doing a floorplan (note though I have not used the new uber-floorplanning apps, so my answer may change in the future).
So all other things being equal, it is easy to argue a hybrid (which at least has some pictures, even if the worst stuff is missing at time) is more credible than just getting a floorplan. I would argue that anyway.

So Fannie appears to again be regressing in the credibility of what they are loaning on, and LTV is now up to 90%. I do wonder if somehow this product will be approved only in neighborhoods with certain demographics. That will be interesting, because I can see some discrimination suits the other way if that is their plan. Anyway, hand me my popcorn please.

 

[Ricky LaFleur]

appraisers who embrace the product early on will find themselves in a much better position down the road than those appraisers who refuse to do them.

Funny how that isn't the first time I've heard that. They were quoting the same line to my mentor 25 years ago about getting with the changing times or get left in the past.
Some gentleman from a lending institution was even telling me that I had better get comfy with google desktops for farm and commercial appraisals too, because if not I'd soon be out of work. Lol...

 

[ucbruin]

now that sounds like a pain in the *** and a giant waste of time. I agree with jgrant on this one. Information supplied by educated/trained appraisers is much more reliable than having to train a homeowner what to do every time you complete an appraisal. It would be much simpler to let licensed appraisal trainees do the inspections and sign on the right like the 1004 is set up for. If fees, turn times and apraiser shortages we’re the real issue this would be the solution.

"now that sounds like a pain in the *** and a giant waste of time. I agree with jgrant on this one. Information supplied by educated/trained appraisers is much more reliable than having to train a homeowner what to do every time you complete an appraisal."

Remarkably neither I nor the homeowner found the process to be a pain in the ***....
Or at least the homeowners never expressed that to me....

Homeowners have experience and know how to take photos....
For my personal requirements, homeowners were required to provide me photos (as if they were educated/trained adults) and they were able to perform this task well....
And I provided the homeowner, via email, with a list of questions that I would typically ask during the appointment process and during a traditional interior inspection and they responded back to me via email (great for recording keeping)....
Do you think your non-licensed appraiser friends/family are capable of answering basic questions regarding their homes and also taking photos and emailing them to you....
I bet they can....

The homeowners weren't required to sketch the house....
The homeowners weren't required to rate the condition, quality or the effective ages of their homes....

And since, for now, the New Desktop program appears geared towards purchases, this process will be so much more streamlined as the agents (educated/trained professionals) will be involved and the information/photographs/floorplans will be their responsibility and included on the listing sheet....

"It would be much simpler to let licensed appraisal trainees do the inspections and sign on the right like the 1004 is set up for. If fees, turn times and apraiser shortages we’re the real issue this would be the solution."

You just described the Hybrid product....
There's no guarantee that today's 1004 set up will be the same as tomorrow's 1004 set up....

I'm sure that there are other appraisers my age and older who may want/need to continue generating income via appraisal work who will find Desktop product to their liking....
Depending on fee and the subject property....
I wouldn't accept a Desktop assignment for waterfront or highrise condo where the view is 90% of the value or an over-built massive contemporary in a town where there are no similar type properties....
But then again I wouldn't accept a Traditional assignment for these properties either....

 

[Jayjay25]

"now that sounds like a pain in the *** and a giant waste of time. I agree with jgrant on this one. Information supplied by educated/trained appraisers is much more reliable than having to train a homeowner what to do every time you complete an appraisal."

Remarkably neither I nor the homeowner found the process to be a pain in the ***....
Or at least the homeowners never expressed that to me....

Homeowners have experience and know how to take photos....
For my personal requirements, homeowners were required to provide me photos (as if they were educated/trained adults) and they were able to perform this task well....
And I provided the homeowner, via email, with a list of questions that I would typically ask during the appointment process and during a traditional interior inspection and they responded back to me via email (great for recording keeping)....
Do you think your non-licensed appraiser friends/family are capable of answering basic questions regarding their homes and also taking photos and emailing them to you....
I bet they can....

The homeowners weren't required to sketch the house....
The homeowners weren't required to rate the condition, quality or the effective ages of their homes....

And since, for now, the New Desktop program appears geared towards purchases, this process will be so much more streamlined as the agents (educated/trained professionals) will be involved and the information/photographs/floorplans will be their responsibility and included on the listing sheet....

"It would be much simpler to let licensed appraisal trainees do the inspections and sign on the right like the 1004 is set up for. If fees, turn times and apraiser shortages we’re the real issue this would be the solution."

You just described the Hybrid product....
There's no guarantee that today's 1004 set up will be the same as tomorrow's 1004 set up....

I'm sure that there are other appraisers my age and older who may want/need to continue generating income via appraisal work who will find Desktop product to their liking....
Depending on fee and the subject property....
I wouldn't accept a Desktop assignment for waterfront or highrise condo where the view is 90% of the value or an over-built massive contemporary in a town where there are no similar type properties....
But then again I wouldn't accept a Traditional assignment for these properties either....

Wrong, I just described the supervisor/trainee relationship that both increases the supply of appraisers and increases appraiser independence. The 1004 with the supervisor signing along with the trainee has been around long before the hybrid was a sparkle in Fannie and Freddie’s eyes. The inspection should be completed under the appraiser’s supervision (who is completing the report) not the lender or someone else with skin in the game.

If they didn't supply me with sufficient photos or information I asked for more and if I had to wait for the information so be it....
In some instances I even emailed them a copy of the 1004 form so they had a better understanding of what I wanted/needed....

This sounds more like you are supervising a trainee, especially if you are explaining the 1004 form to them.

 

[ucbruin]

Because I am still in the TOB (I know everyone is sorry that this is happening to me), I am able to receive private emails via the AF but as I am unable to access my account setting, I am unable to respond back privately via AF....
The View Conversation tab is disabled....

As I am not a fee setting appraiser (I am a fee accepting appraiser) the Desktop product fees that the AMC paid me during 2020/2021 were different per county....
$470 and $530 which are the same fees as their Traditional product fees....
Desktop turn times were longer than Traditional....
I don't believe that I've received a Desktop assignment since the Covid cut-off date was announced a few months back....

 

[ucbruin]

Wrong, I just described the supervisor/trainee relationship that both increases the supply of appraisers and increases appraiser independence. The 1004 with the supervisor signing along with the trainee has been around long before the hybrid was a sparkle in Fannie and Freddie’s eyes. The inspection should be completed under the appraiser’s supervision (who is completing the report) not the lender or someone else with skin in the game.


This sounds more like you are supervising a trainee, especially if you are explaining the 1004 form to them.

"It would be much simpler to let licensed appraisal trainees do the inspections and sign on the right like the 1004 is set up for. If fees, turn times and apraiser shortages we’re the real issue this would be the solution."

"Wrong, I just described the supervisor/trainee relationship that both increases the supply of appraisers and increases appraiser independence."

Is there an appraiser shortage today and do we need to increase the supply of appraisers....


"This sounds more like you are supervising a trainee, especially if you are explaining the 1004 form to them."

You maybe right about this....
On the plus side it's a one and done situation for the trainee and me....
I don't have to accompany the same trainee to the next Desktop assignment...
I don't have to babysit the trainee once the report is submitted....
I don't have to incur any business expenses for the trainee....
And when appraisal volume drops like a stone, I don't have to look at the trainee and say "sorry I have to let you go"....
I don't know about the trainee but it's a win for me....

As an aside....
We may disagree on Desktop and other topics....
And I do appreciate your civility during our conversations....

 

[J Grant]

Because I am still in the TOB (I know everyone is sorry that this is happening to me), I am able to receive private emails via the AF but as I am unable to access my account setting, I am unable to respond back privately via AF....
The View Conversation tab is disabled....

As I am not a fee setting appraiser (I am a fee accepting appraiser) the Desktop product fees that the AMC paid me during 2020/2021 were different per county....
$470 and $530 which are the same fees as their Traditional product fees....
Desktop turn times were longer than Traditional....
I don't believe that I've received a Desktop assignment since the Covid cut-off date was announced a few months back....

You are unbelievably naive.
Apprqisers got full fee for desktop 1004 as a temporary covid variance. The agencies, always looking to make life easy for lenders, took this past covid with a 1004 desktop , and if you think full fees will continue on it , or long term times....idk, how is that possible, when they tout the reason for it as quicker turn times and lower fees ?
You had a nice cooperative owner, cool, not all of them are like that. But let's assume they are. You also did not have to generate a floorplan. Now, if there is no floorplan available, you might have to partner up with the owner and remote direct them over an app to go around their house video entering it into the app ( I have not done it, seems that is how it works )

Now, the owner is the assistant appraiser !! Gee maybe they should get trainee credits !! Maybe thier name should be on the report as having contributed significant assistance '! ( sarcasm ). This kind of over involvement between appraiser and owner is fraught with problems. An owner can claim the appraiser mis understood them, mis used the photos, did the floorplan wrong, was mean to them, or anything else if they are not happy with the value or believes their house was 10 feet bigger. If teh house is vacant and the RE agent does it over the app, same potential problem.

Shortcut ideas have have un intended consequences, which may be why there is a news black out and nothing shared about why hybrids went dark ? What glitch happened in their test period - or maybe they are still being tested, as Tesla sounds people into space - they will one day return ? What happened to lenders setting appointments or appointment apps...

The unintended consequence is greedy, bottom feeder appraisers will under price /quote lightening fast turn times, take on volumes of a geo competent area . While the more diligent appraisers stick to their market area and starve. Exterior appraisals were limited to certain uses for reason, now the agencies want to use a not even a drive by, nobody inspected version and mate to a 1004 form for origination use by providing a floorplan.

I might consider them if the lender was tasked with providing teh floorplan, if appraiser is , that puts a time, tech and liability burden on the appraiser. Try defending a value on a house we never saw...in purchases this ROV and challenge comes up often, good luck with the owner provided help part if they complain.

I can't forecast future though historically, whenever appraisers had a doubt about practices it had sound reasons. Everyone ignored us pre crash with our years long quest to avert the problem as evidenced with the appraiser petition. Then, after the damage was done, they responded with the AMC "solution"

Imo, these products are best suited to big box, staffed AMC where they can use staff appraisers flexibly for piece meal work. For individual appraisers and lenders who want better quality control with their own panel, likely they would gravitate toward option of a regular appraisal where appraiser inspects. - but who can see beyond next few years wrt that would remain.

Speed and cheap and digital beget their own problems. Wire fraud now is huge due to many closings no longer in person everyone at a table. Every time, people, greed, and huge amounts of moeny mix, there are always scammers , fraudsters or just plain old bottom feeders looking for, and finding ways in - .

 

[DWiley]

Desktop--no pictures, but a floorplan is required.

The 1004 Desktop/70D exhibits require the same photos as the 1004/70 (traditional appraisal with interior inspection). As the new desktops are limited to purchase transactions, the required photos would typically be sourced from the listing of the subject property for sale.

 

[J Grant]

The 1004 Desktop/70D exhibits require the same photos as the 1004/70 (traditional appraisal with interior inspection). As the new desktops are limited to purchase transactions, the required photos would typically be sourced from the listing of the subject property for sale.

Photos sourced from a listing are not the same photos as a traditional appraisal that the appraiser took. Listing photos are advertisements for a property and typically only show the good stuff, and now, with some listings are using staged photos. What happens when few listing photos exist, the owner takes them ? What if house is vacant, then what ?

All this to avoid an appraiser going out to a property....Photos are also not a substitute for an inspection where appraiser walks the property and observes it as a whole/what is around it on site..

If lenders want fast service, and want to achieve it by appraisers not visiting a property, they need to pay for professional trained inspectors to measure, take photos, take notes , and provide them which lender passes on to appraiser. Which lenders will not want to do. Or, pay appraisers more so they can hire assistants. That would free appraisers time up to schedule more inspections-These short cut solutions exist because lenders want fast turn times without paying for it to responsibly happen .

Not everyone wants to train to become an appraiser. A subset of people could be trained to only inspect, but to get decent quality/have them avail to run out fast means paying for it. Not hiring off craigslist with a one day train or using the loser end of RE agents desperate for extra cash. Is this why the hybrids went dark, was it too hard to find fast, cheap people to inspect and coordinate it - hybrids could work if entities were willing to pay but their goal of cheap fees to cut costs with it are incompatible.

 

[ucbruin]

You are unbelievably naive.

If naive means simiple....
Does unbelievable naive mean F'ing simple....

Apprqisers got full fee for desktop 1004 as a temporary covid variance. The agencies, always looking to make life easy for lenders, took this past covid with a 1004 desktop , and if you think full fees will continue on it , or long term times....idk, how is that possible, when they tout the reason for it as quicker turn times and lower fees ?
You had a nice cooperative owner, cool, not all of them are like that. But let's assume they are. You also did not have to generate a floorplan. Now, if there is no floorplan available, you might have to partner up with the owner and remote direct them over an app to go around their house video entering it into the app ( I have not done it, seems that is how it works )

Yes I realize and realized that Covid Desktop products were temporary....
And yes I did have nice cooperative owners....
Considering the next Desktop product is for purchases, I won't worry about the homeowner providing a floorplan....
And if fees for the next Desktop product is not to my liking I'll decline it and won't have to partner with anyone....

Now, the owner is the assistant appraiser !! Gee maybe they should get trainee credits !! Maybe thier name should be on the report as having contributed significant assistance '! ( sarcasm ). This kind of over involvement between appraiser and owner is fraught with problems. An owner can claim the appraiser mis understood them, mis used the photos, did the floorplan wrong, was mean to them, or anything else if they are not happy with the value or believes their house was 10 feet bigger. If teh house is vacant and the RE agent does it over the app, same potential problem.

I did include a statement that photos were provided by the homeowner/agent/MLS listing sheet/etc....
It seems to me that this Forum if full of threads regarding borrower complaints against the appraiser performing Traditional product....

Shortcut ideas have have un intended consequences, which may be why there is a news black out and nothing shared about why hybrids went dark ? What glitch happened in their test period - or maybe they are still being tested, as Tesla sounds people into space - they will one day return ? What happened to lenders setting appointments or appointment apps...

The unintended consequence is greedy, bottom feeder appraisers will under price /quote lightening fast turn times, take on volumes of a geo competent area . While the more diligent appraisers stick to their market area and starve. Exterior appraisals were limited to certain uses for reason, now the agencies want to use a not even a drive by, nobody inspected version and mate to a 1004 form for origination use by providing a floorplan.

I might consider them if the lender was tasked with providing teh floorplan, if appraiser is , that puts a time, tech and liability burden on the appraiser. Try defending a value on a house we never saw...in purchases this ROV and challenge comes up often, good luck with the owner provided help part if they complain.

Now doesn't this just sound so silly....
Rail against the bottom feeding appraisers and then admit you would consider doing under the right bottom feeding requirements....
Grant....
Focus on New Desktop for only purchases....

I can't forecast future though historically, whenever appraisers had a doubt about practices it had sound reasons. Everyone ignored us pre crash with our years long quest to avert the problem as evidenced with the appraiser petition. Then, after the damage was done, they responded with the AMC "solution"

Imo, these products are best suited to big box, staffed AMC where they can use staff appraisers flexibly for piece meal work. For individual appraisers and lenders who want better quality control with their own panel, likely they would gravitate toward option of a regular appraisal where appraiser inspects. - but who can see beyond next few years wrt that would remain.

Speed and cheap and digital beget their own problems. Wire fraud now is huge due to many closings no longer in person everyone at a table. Every time, people, greed, and huge amounts of moeny mix, there are always scammers , fraudsters or just plain old bottom feeders looking for, and finding ways in - .

Again you contradict yourself....
On so many levels....