Ever Wondered Who's Selling Us Out?

[ockyappraiser]

"Standing up for reasonable fees is the American Way."

Did I really read this right? Joining forces to establish a base fee is NOT the American way. It is "union thinking" and frankly where the country as a whole is going.

The American way has ALWAYS been that the market will controll pricing as long as the government keeps the heck out of it.

I have no problem with other appraisers charging half of what I do. It gives me the opportunity to show the difference in my work and theirs.

Let me put it another way:

Let's say I RAISE my fees to $400 per appraisal. I normally do 30 appraisals per month, and by raising the fee lose 25% of them. I am basically making the same as before, but working 25% less.

Now let's say my competition decides to "steal" the business and comes in at $200 per appraisal. They get 40 orders per month and are working from 6 AM to 10 PM to keep up. But in the end, they made $8000.

Now lets look at what market pricing does:

I raised my fees, lost 25% of my business, but net the same and spend the new time hunting, fishing,etc

My competition is now doing 40 appraisals to my 22, but making $800 per month LESS than I am.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING. . .LET THEM!

I have said this before. . .I am a businessman in the business of appraising. When I read of appraisers on this forum complaining about what others charge and trying to get everyone to hold to a minum rate. . .to put the other guys out of business. . .it tells me two things: First, you don't understand how close you are treading to being illegal. Second: you are not really a business person. True business people ALWAYS base their business decisions on market forces. When you want the government to enforce a minimum fee. . .or get everyone to establish a minimum fee. . .you are simply forming a union and no better than a union boss.

 

[xmtpedprl]

Sure, let them, but that doesn't mean we can't vent in the process.

They are, at least for the time being, devaluing the trade, which is what concerns me. They are making it appear that the *same* product shall be delivered for about 1/2 the amount normally paid.

I know of no other industry that would do likewise at this time (car, food, legal, general contracting, etc...), but perhaps someone more creative than myself will offer an example.

Actually, I do recall one Nevada builder recently offering a "2 for 1" on homes, so maybe I'm wrong on some specific examples, but not in general.

Dave...

 

[Alison Swain]

"Standing up for reasonable fees is the American Way."

Did I really read this right? Joining forces to establish a base fee is NOT the American way. It is "union thinking" and frankly where the country as a whole is going.

The American way has ALWAYS been that the market will controll pricing as long as the government keeps the heck out of it.

I have no problem with other appraisers charging half of what I do. It gives me the opportunity to show the difference in my work and theirs.

Let me put it another way:

Let's say I RAISE my fees to $400 per appraisal. I normally do 30 appraisals per month, and by raising the fee lose 25% of them. I am basically making the same as before, but working 25% less.

Now let's say my competition decides to "steal" the business and comes in at $200 per appraisal. They get 40 orders per month and are working from 6 AM to 10 PM to keep up. But in the end, they made $8000.

Now lets look at what market pricing does:

I raised my fees, lost 25% of my business, but net the same and spend the new time hunting, fishing,etc

My competition is now doing 40 appraisals to my 22, but making $800 per month LESS than I am.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING. . .LET THEM!

I have said this before. . .I am a businessman in the business of appraising. When I read of appraisers on this forum complaining about what others charge and trying to get everyone to hold to a minum rate. . .to put the other guys out of business. . .it tells me two things: First, you don't understand how close you are treading to being illegal. Second: you are not really a business person. True business people ALWAYS base their business decisions on market forces. When you want the government to enforce a minimum fee. . .or get everyone to establish a minimum fee. . .you are simply forming a union and no better than a union boss.

Hmmm...............interesting points, Mark. I appreciate you illustrating this issue from a different prospective.

 

[TN Pro]

"Standing up for reasonable fees is the American Way."

Did I really read this right? Joining forces to establish a base fee is NOT the American way. It is "union thinking" and frankly where the country as a whole is going.

The American way has ALWAYS been that the market will controll pricing as long as the government keeps the heck out of it.

I have no problem with other appraisers charging half of what I do. It gives me the opportunity to show the difference in my work and theirs.

Let me put it another way:

Let's say I RAISE my fees to $400 per appraisal. I normally do 30 appraisals per month, and by raising the fee lose 25% of them. I am basically making the same as before, but working 25% less.

Now let's say my competition decides to "steal" the business and comes in at $200 per appraisal. They get 40 orders per month and are working from 6 AM to 10 PM to keep up. But in the end, they made $8000.

Now lets look at what market pricing does:

I raised my fees, lost 25% of my business, but net the same and spend the new time hunting, fishing,etc

My competition is now doing 40 appraisals to my 22, but making $800 per month LESS than I am.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING. . .LET THEM!

I have said this before. . .I am a businessman in the business of appraising. When I read of appraisers on this forum complaining about what others charge and trying to get everyone to hold to a minum rate. . .to put the other guys out of business. . .it tells me two things: First, you don't understand how close you are treading to being illegal. Second: you are not really a business person. True business people ALWAYS base their business decisions on market forces. When you want the government to enforce a minimum fee. . .or get everyone to establish a minimum fee. . .you are simply forming a union and no better than a union boss.

Nice post.

 

[Kevin Mc]

I thought that must have been a mistake, but you're right, it's all there in black & white.

I sent an e-mail voicing my displeasure at they're making the trade essentially worthless in the eyes of the lending community.

AMAZING...

McNamara

 

[xmtpedprl]

Yes, much like you misrepresenting me at every turn, McNamara.

Dave...

 

[Wendy]

So... aside from just complaining about the issue, what can you Florida appraisers do to correct the situation? These guys, like all of us, need to make a buck. Working for $45 an hour and having work versus $90 an hour and not, is be a simple decision to make. If they produce shoddy work, they are not likely to survive, regardless. I'm not sure I understand the rational behind not allowing a "trainee" to own an appraisal business. Is this law specific to trainees or does it cover anyone who is not a certified appraiser?

My bold added

Unfortunately, the market rewards shoddy work as long as the number is there. Sad but true.

I'm not saying these guys are shoddy or are producing bad work (although cheap and fast does not lead me to assume quality - but I'll hold that judgment as I've not seen their work).

What makes me crazy is that we have so many of the blind leading the blind here in Florida.

The certs license is very near to my number - 2004 is the year of certification for me as well. I am just now getting to the point that I'd even begin to think about a trainee. Even then I don't feel quite comfortable with the idea as there are still things I'm learning all the time. I can't imagine having had two trainees under me with only a year or so of age on my certification. I wonder how long before his former trainees have trainees?

Based on the stuff already mentioned, it does not seem like he has a full grasp of the trainee rules. Most likely didn't learn the right way from his supervisor either. Now the current trainees are following the same path. That is what I have a problem with.

What can we do to correct it? Supporting the suggestion of 5 years seasoning for supervisors that is currently before the board would be a start. Or better yet, reform the whole trainee system and get some real education into it.

 

[CANative]

"Standing up for reasonable fees is the American Way."

Did I really read this right? Joining forces to establish a base fee is NOT the American way. It is "union thinking" and frankly where the country as a whole is going.

The American way has ALWAYS been that the market will controll pricing as long as the government keeps the heck out of it.

I have no problem with other appraisers charging half of what I do. It gives me the opportunity to show the difference in my work and theirs.

Let me put it another way:

Let's say I RAISE my fees to $400 per appraisal. I normally do 30 appraisals per month, and by raising the fee lose 25% of them. I am basically making the same as before, but working 25% less.

Now let's say my competition decides to "steal" the business and comes in at $200 per appraisal. They get 40 orders per month and are working from 6 AM to 10 PM to keep up. But in the end, they made $8000.

Now lets look at what market pricing does:

I raised my fees, lost 25% of my business, but net the same and spend the new time hunting, fishing,etc

My competition is now doing 40 appraisals to my 22, but making $800 per month LESS than I am.

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING. . .LET THEM!

I have said this before. . .I am a businessman in the business of appraising. When I read of appraisers on this forum complaining about what others charge and trying to get everyone to hold to a minum rate. . .to put the other guys out of business. . .it tells me two things: First, you don't understand how close you are treading to being illegal. Second: you are not really a business person. True business people ALWAYS base their business decisions on market forces. When you want the government to enforce a minimum fee. . .or get everyone to establish a minimum fee. . .you are simply forming a union and no better than a union boss.

That would be a beautiful concept if it actually worked that way. More often the scenarios is not less work/same money but rather no work.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Dean, I'm not the police of anything. I will report suspicious activities that might signal mortgage fraud and I will report appraisers in violation of laws.

 

[Walter Skaggs]

It somes as a package --- throat-cutting the competition and breaking the law concerning supervisor/trainees. At least in this case.

Seems more like suicide to me.