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"Grow Room"?

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Lady,

The grow room is a real estate matter, the type of plants are not a real estate matter. Disclose just as you would if he was growing lemons indoor. Would you disclose the contents of the entire garden if it as tomatoes, onions, cilantro. Of course not, you'd provide comments about the room and show them a picture.:shrug:
 
First of all, I do not agree with federal laws regarding marijuana and other recreational drugs.

That being said, its not a personal judgment to point out activity that is illegal under Federal law that is occuring on the premises when such activity can and does have a negative effect on the suitability of that property to serve as collateral for a mortgage loan and, hence, whether or not the mortgage loan will be repaid (I am assuming that this is for a mortgage related appraisal).

Reporting such potentially negative property conditions goes to the very heart of our role as appraisers and those who would not do so because they believe that the underlying law is a bad law should turn in their appraisal licenses and not appraise anymore, because they are too ethically challenged to be trusted by the public.

In my state if someone in your household is caught selling drugs at a street corner, even if that person is a grandson living under your roof, who may never have brought the drugs into your house, and you had no idea he was selling drugs, because they live at your house, your house is subject to seizure. Therefore, anyone who has a teenager or a college student living with them is suspect; so, if our job is to be open ended risk analyzers for the bank, including determing the probability that a house would be seized or not, we would have to report on what we know concerning the occupants, too.

We are there for real property analysis. Forget it being a grow room, what if it was a single plant growing in the master bedroom? Seizure is equally possible. To me, that is outside the scope of my assignment.

My appraisal is based on the "as is" condition of the property, it is not based on any hypothetical possibility outside of real estate, including the hypothetical possibility that the house will be seized due to the personal choices of the owner. Such use of disclosure could open up a boulevrd for redlining. After all, the possibility of any single house being seized for drugs is going to be higher in the inner cities than in the suburbs. Therefore, to offset the risk, regardless of credit worthiness, such loans should be avoided or given a higher interest rate. I don't think so.
 
We are there for real property analysis. Forget it being a grow room, what if it was a single plant growing in the master bedroom? Seizure is equally possible. To me, that is outside the scope of my assignment.

For lending assignments, it is often more than real property analysis. We're also there to report the facts, not hide them, plain and simple.

My appraisal is based on the "as is" condition of the property, it is not based on any hypothetical possibility outside of real estate, including the hypothetical possibility that the house will be seized due to the personal choices of the owner.

Who's the owner? The one with the 80% (or more) equity in the home, or the occupant? Miss three payments and find out. Simply report the facts to the investor and let them decide.
 
The appraiser is the eyes for the lender.

Okay, so we go to the house and know the owner, and we know he served time in jail and was convicted on felony charges but has since been released. To make matters worse, he is on the sex offenders list and we saw him just the other evening (late afternoon) hanging out in a park where there were children. He could very well be going to jail again, and soon, though he isn't accused of anything yet. Do we report his activities to the lender? Are we the eyes and ears of the bank like the SS, or just for matters of real property appraising?

Funny thing is, the lender is really the owner of the house. Typically they have a greater equity position than the occupant. I think reporting to the entity that will have the largest equity position the fact that their investment could be seized by the government is a rather relevant fact that they would like to know before lending. I certainly would like to know if it was my money on the line.

If the lender was the REAL owner of the house then the $150,000 I am upside down on in my house would not be my loss at all, but entirely theirs. Technically, no one owns the house, we own the rights to the house, and when we take out a loan with a bank the rights we own are encumbered by the mortgage. But the lender does not take ownership of anything unless ownership is written into the agreement.

Nobody is going to seize a home for personal picture, decorations, or sloppiness. However, the potential for seizure exists regarding the matter at hand.

Houses can be seized for a variety of reasons. A couple lost their house here due to swinger parties; another house was lost due to regular poker games that alledgedly rose to the level of a casino; US Agents can now seize a laptop computer at US borders at will, hold it indefinately, search its contents, and perhaps seize your house and other assets due to what it contains. As I referred to in another post, just recently a grandmother's house was seized because her grandson, who lived at her house, was caught selling drugs at a street corner; there was no evidence that he ever brought drugs into her house, and she was totally unaware of his illegal activity. Another couple, who owned two houses, and lived in one while renting the other had the house they were living in seized along with their rental, and every other asset they owned, because their tenants planted pot in a wooded area of the rented house and were busted by the Feds.

It simply isn't my position, Dave, to report on how many decks of cards are in a house, or perhaps on an obvious sex room for sex parties at a nudist's house who lives on a lake and has huge, sexfilled weekend bashes (I am speaking from experience on an inspection I did once), or that there are teenagers in the house who reek of marijuana (which has also happened on several occassions), or that the owner has several laptop computers and frequently travels abroad. For all I know, a grow room could actually be filled with Japaneese maple saplings. I am not a botanist, plants are not my speciality. If the room has mold growing on the walls or a mildew odor, I will report that, but I simply don't care what type of plants are growing in pots. Even if the owner told me what they were, I wouldn't report it because I would be reporting on a legal issue to which Iam not qualified, and anything I put in writing concerning it would be considered heresay and possibly libel. If you don't believe me, imagine the extreme: The guys says it's pot, I put the pot grow room in the report, the guy gets wind of it that he is being denied a loan over it, he calls the lender in and invites them to examine the room. It turns out he swiched the plants and now they are all Japaneese maples. Whoops. In comes a botanist who identifies them as just baby saplings. The lender makes the loan, and the owner accuses the appraiser with libel. The appraiser? Guilty as charged.
 
How about a counterfeiting operation? sans the State permit ; ) or a poppy processing room?

If they had a counterfeiting operation and it was a good one, I can't imagine why they' be in need of an appraisal :)

As for poppies, there is no processing. The plants themselves are not illegal. All poppies are potent. And turning them into drugs that make you high takes very little effort. Poppies are a very funny example as a matter of fact. It is not owning poppy plants, or growing them, that is illegal. Heck, you can buy poppies, dried or thriving, at a florist. It is owning poppies and knowing how to turn them into a drug that is illegal. It is a weird example where ownership and knowledge together equals illegal activity. If we are appraising an old ladies house who grows her beautiful poppies in the back yard, should we interview her to determine how much she knows about making laudanum? "Owner grows poppies, and spoke of a tea she calls her 'homemade elixer', further investigation is recommended".
 
Okay, so we go to the house and know the owner, and we know he served time in jail and was convicted on felony charges but has since been released. To make matters worse, he is on the sex offenders list and we saw him just the other evening (late afternoon) hanging out in a park where there were children.

The OP is talking about activities taking place on the subject property as of the date of the inspection, observed by the appraiser (i.e., eyes for the investor).

Your example deals with activities off site and not observed. If those type of activities were taking place in the house at the time of inspection, I would be reporting them to the police first, not the lender.

Simply report, not hide, the facts and let the investor deal with them.

If you don't believe me, imagine the extreme: The guys says it's pot, I put the pot grow room in the report, the guy gets wind of it that he is being denied a loan over it, he calls the lender in and invites them to examine the room. It turns out he swiched the plants and now they are all Japaneese maples. Whoops. In comes a botanist who identifies them as just baby saplings. The lender makes the loan, and the owner accuses the appraiser with libel. The appraiser? Guilty as charged.

This has nothing to do with the OP. In the case at hand, we're dealing with the owner stating that illegal activity was going on. It's a cut and dry case.
 
The OP is talking about activities taking place on the subject property as of the date of the inspection, observed by the appraiser (i.e., eyes for the investor).

Your example deals with activities off site and not observed. If those type of activities were taking place in the house at the time of inspection, I would be reporting them to the police first, not the lender.

But your claim is the grow room must be reported because the collateral is at greater risk. Why would it matter if it is off site or on site when we know what we are observing causes the client/invester greater risk? I think either your line of demarcation (on site/off site) is incorrect, or your reasons for having to report the grow room (greater risk) are incorrect.

This has nothing to do with the OP. In the case at hand, we're dealing with the owner stating that illegal activity was going on. It's a cut and dry case.

It has everything to do with what we are dealing with. If the owner told a cop the plants in his house are pot plants, before a cop read him his rights, it is not admissible evidence. What the owner tells me, and I report as told to me, is hearsay. It is not evidence. It is far from cut and dry. The owner can very easily change out those plants, say the appraiser is making stuff up about what was said, and accuse the appraiser of libel.
 
How do you handle the question:

Is the current use of the subject as improved the highest and best use?

Legally permissible and all...wouldn't you have to check "NO"?
 
How do you handle the question:

Is the current use of the subject as improved the highest and best use?

Legally permissible and all...wouldn't you have to check "NO"?


Its use is a SFR.
 
Sounds like a 1950's propaganda film in here.

I have personally reported over 2 dozen homeowners for having a computer in their house that burns cd's. Stealing music is against the law.

The old man is dying, lives in Califonia and has a doctor's letter that says the use of cannabis is recommended for relief. Unless it is an obvious commercial operation that takes up a two car garage, you are not a DEA agent so you do not disclose.

IMO
 
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