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When Customary Fees Become Unreasonable

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Without OCC or FDIC, FSLIC insurance (not sure all the agencies now), many wouldn't have a dime to lend. Business would be over for many in spite of how GOOD they might think they are or might be. They know that. Trust me, I don't have tell them and they are not one bit ashamed of it. They depend on the government and are proud of it because most wouldn't be in business as they know it and wouldn't be doing near as well as they are.

There are just so many industries that way. Appraisers who do mortgage related work, particularly long term residential mortgage related work needed a price floor a long time ago just like agricultural farmers in the great depression. Let the regulators worry about the bad apples. The price floor would have kept many of the good ones in. It's coming though and it's not too late.
 
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There is a floor and is set by one of the largest banks in California which is a high cost State ( let's wait for the drum roll it's $238.00 ( that's the floor )
 
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Without OCC or FDIC, FSLIC insurance (not sure all the agencies now), many wouldn't have a dime to lend. Business would be over for many in spite of how GOOD they might think they are or might be. They know that. Trust me, I don't have tell them and they are not one bit ashamed of it. They depend on the government and are proud of it because most wouldn't be in business as they know it and wouldn't be doing near as well as they are.

There are just so many industries that way. Appraisers who do mortgage related work, particularly long term residential mortgage related work needed a price floor a long time ago just like agricultural farmers in the great depression. Let the regulators worry about the bad apples. The price floor would have kept many of the good ones in. It's coming though and it's not too late.

A floor should relate to reality (a little bit); prior to 2007 many basic work packages were in the $350-$400 range and amounted to 12-14 pages of work. After blowing Mortgage Brokers out of the water (Licensing & Insurance would have worked well) and basically stealing all of your Clients (HVCC/AMC) that in which we all worked to build over 20 years; increasing the work Load (Doubled/Tripled-pages) and over the past 2-4 years implemented the "Magic Bus Theory" (computers can do everything in residential housing) we now have come up with a Floor ?
When anyone redesigns a "Mouse Trap" for the sake of laziness (computer generated specific performance-readable numbers & language) in a short period of time, you will generate that which the Old Mouse Trap worked well because it pre-existed new language & meaning.

IE: in building houses on contract or spec. - when anyone wanted to make "changes" there is always an "Adjustment" for the additional work; In court cases, when new information is brought in there is a change (adjustment to the fee); when the Doctor is in the operating room and has to correct anything, other than that which he/she is there for, there is an additional fee related to that.
To me, a Floor is that which will be used to maintain a Low Level Fee structure, while increasing the work capacity for a Long period of time; Farmers and Appraiser's offer different Fields of Expertise; also Farmers were given Large Quantities of $$$$$$$$$$$ not to grow. I still haven't received my check for the Loss/Stealing of my Client base built over 20 years ? (My Crop)

And now we have a base/Floor of; $238 - just curious as to how many California Appraisers would complete a 28-34 page report for that ? And be able to survive / buy a house / eat and purchase a car; from everything I've read about Costs in California, you would probably be able to buy a case of toilet paper, but the cost of Renting a Toilet, you would need to get a Loan.
 
There is a floor and is set by one of the largest banks in California which is a high cost State ( let's wait for the drum roll it's $238.00 ( that's the floor )
Would be helpful if everyone knew who the bank is and what AMCs they use. Quick internet perusal indicates the bank you don't mention by name is either Wells Fargo or the Boa. Correct, incorrect?
 
This conversation is all well and good, but don't you guys consider why a consensus cannot be reached amongst a set of so seemingly well educated appraisers?

The root cause of the problem is not with the appraisers, or the originators, or the AMC's. Sure they all have a host of problems, but the primary issues are more simple, but harder to correct.

Emphasis on quality and reliability of valuation professionals services is diminished from the start, because we're primarily furnishing reports for GSE's, whom are backed by taxpayer dollars, in a fiat currency system where the ever manipulated FED rate drives purchasing power.

Take away the catch net of taxpayer backing, and watch these companies actually care about staying in business themselves. Someone mentioned in this thread that appraisal development quality is a distant concern for all involved. Double dare you to tell that to your EO provider, and to the never ending stream of litigants dealing with improperly securitized financial instruments related to housing.

We don't need to fix the money supply, we need to fix the money.

Audit the fed, and get government out of the business of residential home lending.

These institutions were at their heart, supposed to be in place to protect regular citizens from the woes sure to come, if major corporations had their way, in and outside of the government. aka; lessons learned from the great depression. After long periods of propaganda, misinformation campaigns, planted news stories, and endless debates on irrelevant issues, these powerful organizations have successfully re wrote history and they're sitting back chuckling how individuals like yourself expend so much energy arguing amongst each other, aloof to the real problem, and real solutions.

Audit the fed. Fines based on income. Prohibit all persons employed in government from ever lobbying government for life. Immediately eliminate fiat currency and go back to the silver standard.

People don't know what $40 an hour really means, until they get paid that much, and then watch the fiat system expand to compensate. Only when they can enjoy reliable monetary systems, can they ever truly know what they're worth. They'll still be worth the same amount of silver coins, regardless of the fiat to fiat exchange rate of the day. Money is not speech, and corporations are not people.

Unions are very effective, and I am a strong supporter of unions. But not as a 1099 worker. If someone wants to put a union organization together whom has proprietary work assignment contracts with major lenders, I'll join that union and bring my absolute best foot and most professional hat forward. As long as the parent corporation whom works with union representatives has the option to not work with union people on the other side of the same coin, union implementation cannot work for 1099's. And without union implementation being state wide at a minimum, so many of the counter arguments in threads like this, remain valid concerns. Or perhaps the union could be there as a requirement to bank companies who have been penalized, and are no longer given permission to engage a free and open vendor market.

I've heard that in CA unions for certain laborers like groups of technicians in servicing sectors, they have legal backing of the union through state requirements. I believe that it is law, that all such type of work must be run through a union. Union members enjoy fair and good compensation, but also have to wait in a state wide rotation to get a punch in with those opportunities. The theory behind this is sound, but my skin crawls at the thought of multi national banksters and their government minions contributing to the structure of an appraisers union set of legislation and laws. We could not afford to buy that law, they way it needs to be bought on our behalf. The point being, the law is up for sale, and is rarely written in an unbiased manner at upper levels. Ever looked into legislation writing groups? Unlike a network of private retail businesses whom have need and find good value in HVAC services, and a broad support on either side of the engagement, the game would be quite different if dealing with lenders. Appraisers are few, and lenders interests are many.

If they could have ran a successful show of it under current systems, they would have a long time ago. Stay out of debt to begin with, and cancel all debt as soon as possible, because mortgage lending really is a buyer beware industry. Be the champion of honesty and ethics to yourself, because the mechanisms of justice in our government, are already broken for the considerations we're talking about. When it comes to checks and balances, we're it. The rest is just smoke and mirrors, and after effect which rarely even brings the tide in, for those creating so many waves. Our profession is under attack, because the principals of the checks and balances system in this industry is under attack. Sometimes we all feel that it's down to us, but take heart, because this country is filled to the brim with patriots. Nobody is going to be able to dilute that. Show me a proprietary working rights contract and give me an entry point, and that's when I'll be able to support a union, in my current position.
 
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I do maybe 5 jobs a month for wells fargo, as they rarely pay a C&R fee. I just got an order for am appraisal for $215. I countered with my C&R fee + $50 more due to the home being more complex than your typical subd home.

As long as the largest lender in country isn't punished for unreasonable/unprofessional fees, nothing will change. I suppose there is a reason well fargo has lobbyists in every state capital and a seat at the table on most appraisal boards.
 
This conversation is all well and good, but don't you guys consider why a consensus cannot be reached amongst a set of so seemingly well educated appraisers?

The root cause of the problem is not with the appraisers, or the originators, or the AMC's. Sure they all have a host of problems, but the primary issues are more simple, but harder to correct.

Emphasis on quality and reliability of valuation professionals services is diminished from the start, because we're primarily furnishing reports for GSE's, whom are backed by taxpayer dollars, in a fiat currency system where the ever manipulated FED rate drives purchasing power.

Take away the catch net of taxpayer backing, and watch these companies actually care about staying in business themselves. Someone mentioned in this thread that appraisal development quality is a distant concern for all involved. Double dare you to tell that to your EO provider, and to the never ending stream of litigants dealing with improperly securitized financial instruments related to housing.

We don't need to fix the money supply, we need to fix the money.

Audit the fed, and get government out of the business of residential home lending.

These institutions were at their heart, supposed to be in place to protect regular citizens from the woes sure to come, if major corporations had their way, in and outside of the government. aka; lessons learned from the great depression. After long periods of propaganda, misinformation campaigns, planted news stories, and endless debates on irrelevant issues, these powerful organizations have successfully re wrote history and they're sitting back chuckling how individuals like yourself expend so much energy arguing amongst each other, aloof to the real problem, and real solutions.

Audit the fed. Fines based on income. Prohibit all persons employed in government from ever lobbying government for life. Immediately eliminate fiat currency and go back to the silver standard.

People don't know what $40 an hour really means, until they get paid that much, and then watch the fiat system expand to compensate. Only when they can enjoy reliable monetary systems, can they ever truly know what they're worth. They'll still be worth the same amount of silver coins, regardless of the fiat to fiat exchange rate of the day. Money is not speech, and corporations are not people.

Unions are very effective, and I am a strong supporter of unions. But not as a 1099 worker. If someone wants to put a union organization together whom has proprietary work assignment contracts with major lenders, I'll join that union and bring my absolute best foot and most professional hat forward. As long as the parent corporation whom works with union representatives has the option to not work with union people on the other side of the same coin, union implementation cannot work for 1099's. And without union implementation being state wide at a minimum, so many of the counter arguments in threads like this, remain valid concerns. Or perhaps the union could be there as a requirement to bank companies who have been penalized, and are no longer given permission to engage a free and open vendor market.

I've heard that in CA unions for certain laborers like groups of technicians in servicing sectors, they have legal backing of the union through state requirements. I believe that it is law, that all such type of work must be run through a union. Union members enjoy fair and good compensation, but also have to wait in a state wide rotation to get a punch in with those opportunities. The theory behind this is sound, but my skin crawls at the thought of multi national banksters and their government minions contributing to the structure of an appraisers union set of legislation and laws. We could not afford to buy that law, they way it needs to be bought on our behalf. The point being, the law is up for sale, and is rarely written in an unbiased manner at upper levels. Ever looked into legislation writing groups? Unlike a network of private retail businesses whom have need and find good value in HVAC services, and a broad support on either side of the engagement, the game would be quite different if dealing with lenders. Appraisers are few, and lenders interests are many.

If they could have ran a successful show of it under current systems, they would have a long time ago. Stay out of debt to begin with, and cancel all debt as soon as possible, because mortgage lending really is a buyer beware industry. Be the champion of honesty and ethics to yourself, because the mechanisms of justice in our government, are already broken for the considerations we're talking about. When it comes to checks and balances, we're it. The rest is just smoke and mirrors, and after effect which rarely even brings the tide in, for those creating so many waves. Our profession is under attack, because the principals of the checks and balances system in this industry is under attack. Sometimes we all feel that it's down to us, but take heart, because this country is filled to the brim with patriots. Nobody is going to be able to dilute that. Show me a proprietary working rights contract and give me an entry point, and that's when I'll be able to support a union, in my current position.

You and I can absolutely forget govt getting out it. Banks would love that too. That will never be a viable option.

Some people would rather not have police, military, or school TOO.
 
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To all those people, I say move somewhere else.

Go. Be gone like yesterday. That border is still open.
 
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I don't know why this clip came to mind
 
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