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Just finished the 15 hour online USPAP course from McKissock

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The problem is that some of that water is leftover from previous updates. I have no problem with USPAP updates and zero problem with significant instruction and testing for qualifying ed. I do have a problem with seven hours every two years when there simply isn't enough new material so much of the class is a rehash of so many previous updates.

That water is just stale.

Agreed.

I understand the frustration when people talk about breezing through online classes in a fraction of the time its supposed to take. I much prefer online to in class as I absorb more. I dont find I learn more or less either way. In AZ we can't take USPAP online and have to sit every other year in class.

Just like online classes I normally just pick up a few small tidbits here and there sitting in class. All in all Id prefer to be at home in comfort as opposed to listening to mostly insignificant chatter for 8 hours on a Saturday.
 
Gee thanks Voltaire. Because for people like you boasting I had to suffer through the NEW 7 Hour USPAP from McKissock which made me mouse click after each sentence to prove I was reading it and take each quiz twice to prove "mastery" even if I got all the questions fight the first time. McKissock said that the format was a new ASB requirement.
 
Gee thanks Voltaire. Because for people like you boasting I had to suffer through the NEW 7 Hour USPAP from McKissock which made me mouse click after each sentence to prove I was reading it and take each quiz twice to prove "mastery" even if I got all the questions fight the first time. McKissock said that the format was a new ASB requirement.


There is a God, or at least the ASB doing his work.:clapping:
 
Gee thanks Voltaire. Because for people like you boasting I had to suffer through the NEW 7 Hour USPAP from McKissock which made me mouse click after each sentence to prove I was reading it and take each quiz twice to prove "mastery" even if I got all the questions fight the first time. McKissock said that the format was a new ASB requirement.

The double quiz requirement for online courses has been in place for a while. Clicking each sentence to prove you read it looks like a new one, though.
 
The double quiz requirement for online courses has been in place for a while. Clicking each sentence to prove you read it looks like a new one, though.

I've not seen how they present this so I don't know how irritating it might be. However, I don't have a problem with strong-arm efforts to push people into actually doing the on-line work they are getting credit for completing.
 
When I took the current Instructor Requalification course last year - which is only offered online - I went through the double test routine. It's kind of annoying. Because each question is timed to demonstrate fluency there's some pressure to not only come up with the correct answer, but to do it within the prescribed time limitation. I can see how people who have test anxiety and who don't normally do real well with tests would have trouble with it.

What I don't like about online formats for CE courses is the fixed presentation. Obviously there are benefits to the uniformity of the presentation, but I think the lack of flexibility on the delivery makes it inferior in some respects when compared to a conscientious live instruction format.

When I'm engaged in a live course setting I have the flexibility to tailor my delivery to my group. I can identify problem areas in the course and take as many swings as necessary to make my point. I can switch up the examples I'm using or find different approaches altogether so that we're focusing on the principles more than the examples themselves. I can readily solicit opposing viewpoints from course participants and open those areas up for discussion.

The online courses I've seen not only present less material by volume than the live courses, but they are also heavily dependent on the course developer's ability to write a course using a very limited number of examples and modes of explanation, in order to try to register with as many people as possible. In my opinion that's a severe limitation.

The other problem I have with the online courses I've seen is that many of them tend to be fixated on teaching to the quizzes, frequently incorporating the verbiage used in the test questions so they can avoid being accused of not presenting that material in the manner used in the quiz. Now I've written quizzes before and I know that in order to write a multiple choice question and include a correct answer among the alternatives I have to be real careful with my verbiage so that I don't inadvertently create a trick question that has more than one answer that can be argued to be correct. I also have to include that verbiage in the text. The problem is that the verbiage that makes for a "defendable" test question for a course developer isn't always a good way to explain the material to a student.

Moreover, I don't believe it's possible to mount a single written explanation that will register with almost everyone for some of these complex elements. Some of them are sufficiently nuanced that it takes several explanations coming from different angles, and it's hard to identify exactly which combination will register with any one group prior to interacting with them.
 
When I took the current Instructor Requalification course last year - which is only offered online - I went through the double test routine. It's kind of annoying. Because each question is timed to demonstrate fluency there's some pressure to not only come up with the correct answer, but to do it within the prescribed time limitation. I can see how people who have test anxiety and who don't normally do real well with tests would have trouble with it.

What I don't like about online formats for CE courses is the fixed presentation. Obviously there are benefits to the uniformity of the presentation, but I think the lack of flexibility on the delivery makes it inferior in some respects when compared to a conscientious live instruction format.

When I'm engaged in a live course setting I have the flexibility to tailor my delivery to my group. I can identify problem areas in the course and take as many swings as necessary to make my point. I can switch up the examples I'm using or find different approaches altogether so that we're focusing on the principles more than the examples themselves. I can readily solicit opposing viewpoints from course participants and open those areas up for discussion.

The online courses I've seen not only present less material by volume than the live courses, but they are also heavily dependent on the course developer's ability to write a course using a very limited number of examples and modes of explanation, in order to try to register with as many people as possible. In my opinion that's a severe limitation.

The other problem I have with the online courses I've seen is that many of them tend to be fixated on teaching to the quizzes, frequently incorporating the verbiage used in the test questions so they can avoid being accused of not presenting that material in the manner used in the quiz. Now I've written quizzes before and I know that in order to write a multiple choice question and include a correct answer among the alternatives I have to be real careful with my verbiage so that I don't inadvertently create a trick question that has more than one answer that can be argued to be correct. I also have to include that verbiage in the text. The problem is that the verbiage that makes for a "defendable" test question for a course developer isn't always a good way to explain the material to a student.

Moreover, I don't believe it's possible to mount a single written explanation that will register with almost everyone for some of these complex elements. Some of them are sufficiently nuanced that it takes several explanations coming from different angles, and it's hard to identify exactly which combination will register with any one group prior to interacting with them.

George,

Excellent. That is the best argument I have ever seen for live presentation, or writing a better online course.

For the record, I did write a letter of concern to the AQB about the notable Mr/Ms Voltaire and his 15 hours in 5 hours. I did not complain about McKissock as they were the provider doing what is allowed or was allowed by the AQB. I got back a very short "Thank you" with little comment from the AQB. Not sure if it had any influence or not, and really don't need to know. The fact that a course may have some meaning now is the important thing.

Like you, I took the AQB Recertification exam las October. I did it in one setting, in about 4 hours. Guess the "old ****" is not as stupid as Voltaire would have one believe.:icon_mrgreen:
 
I should be able to take a test for USPAP, if I pass, I skip 8 hours out of my day.
 
I too am an AQB Certified USPAP instructor and had the same observations as George.

Thank you George, for providing a comprehensive and convincing argument for in-class instruction.
 
I'm not categorically opposed to the online or distance forms of instruction. I think they work better for some subjects than others. I think they work better for some course participants than others, too.

To be sure, live instruction is also a really mixed bag. It would be an understatement to say that attending a course taught by an incompetent or inarticulate or unmotivated instructor is counterproductive. How many appraisers view CE requirements as a curse primarily because of their negative experiences with poor instruction?

I think it bears repeating that teaching a course requires an almost completely different skillset than actually doing the work. Sure, familiarity with the material is crucial, but communication skills and the ability to create and maintain a suitable vibe in the room is extremely important, too. There are lots of truly great appraisers who lack those particular skills. OTOH, there are some appraisers with fairly mediocre technical skills (like me) who can still lay down a good rap in a classroom and can move the group from Point A to Point B in the course material without losing anyone.


I've been told on a couple occasions (in class) that "Those who can...do; and those who can't...teach". I try to make it a point to keep that in mind every time I step behind the podium.
 
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